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King palm recovery and others...
On a related note-my Bottle palm lost all its fronds and roots..keeled over months ago(2?)..ok to me these palms look succulent like.So,instead of throwing out a palm with no roots or fronds-i put it in a mix of 90% perlite and the rest potting soil. Checked it today,-no roots,but the spear is still firm and green!..If it does re root i have photos of the whole process..if it goes and dies i will always wonder if it would have re rooted in a greenhouse instead of my back yard..not the ideal warm, humid, place to recover.
The following thread was started by stan on July 23, 2007 at 12:57 am PST
Last week the town of Bangalow in subtropical N NSW got down to -9C. This is an area full of banana/mango/papaya plantations. As plants can usually survive the extremes of their natural environment, it seems that -9C might be the limit for bangalow palm. If not, there are going to be MILLIONS of dead palms there!
The above followup was added by Ben on July 23, 2007 at 6:52 pm PST.
Ben, seems you guys down under from us are trailing our weather pattern. Last year we had a bad winter. But sometimes it seems to be the reverse.
Wow, -9C, that is 15.5F to us, that really hurts and is massively cold and damaging, if it stays for very long. This last winter I had a max low of 21F/-6.1C,with many other nights nearly as low. But outside of the small town I am in; 15F/-9.4C to 18F/-7.7C was common in rural areas, if not colder.
I had most of my young potted bangalows under shade cloth, which does not protect very well. Had some in the open, between a shed and a fence, not covered and small yet; lost about 50 percent of these. We had warm days, so things closer to the ground, seem most protected here, if they were near something or had any hit of overhead protection, even a decidous tree with not leaves on the branches.
The worst two days, was when it dropped down to freezing as the the sun went down.
Our max lows in this area dropped down 8 to 12 plus degrees colder then usual in our rural areas. Modesto seemed to be the most protected city in the area.
Was it that cold in the open, or under the tree canopy? I know we here often see how cold it got there and get confused not realizing that. It might be so cold in the open, but be much warmer under the tree canopy, many of us know.
The above followup was added by DavidLJ48, Waterford CA, zone9 on July 24, 2007 at 1:46 am PST.
15f.? That isnt a record?
Any particular reason for such a hard freeze? errant jet stream or?
The above followup was added by stan on July 24, 2007 at 9:16 am PST.
A record, that depends, many tropical areas seem to do a low dump from time to time in Australia
That was one reason I special ordered the Bangalow seeds, after Ben made me aware of the last one, were his in law's live. I was not able to get the collector to get them exactly there, but within 30 to 50 miles or so.
A few years ago, 4 years now??? It got down to -8C plus at Ben's in-laws place in NSW ?Australia, where Bangalow/King palms grow naturally. If I remember correctly, he later saw that most lost their fronds, but came back out. I guess Ben can correct me if I am error, his memory is much better then mine. And I depend on him at time to correct me, if I error.
Australia is not that far from Antarctica, New Zealand is even closer. As you know jet streams move about, it does not take much to get dramatic happenings.
The above followup was added by DavidLJ48, Waterford CA, zone9 on July 24, 2007 at 9:40 am PST.
I had 23f
Only one King survived and is now doing well.
All others just keeled over... I figuired if they bend over at the crown shaft... its a gonner.
The above followup was added by Jeff on July 24, 2007 at 11:14 am PST.
not far from Antartica
Bangalow is at about 27S latitude, so much closer to the equator (0S) than the pole (90S). I am closer to the S. Pole than Bangalow is, but at 39.5S I am also closer to the equator.
I don't know for sure where the cold was, but I strongly suspect it would have been in a very localised spot, probably in a hollow somewhere, and that its duration might have been an hour if that. I was generally cold in the entire are though, Brisbane got to -1.5C, and Gold caoast got a record low as well. I have emailed my brother-in-law to see what happened at Urbenville, no reply yet.
When I looked at the cold damage after the -8C in Lismore about 15 years ago it was pretty messy. Dead A. alexandrae stumps everywhere, and a whole plantation of bananas that had been totally wiped out and replanted. Most of the A. cunninghamiana were regrowing new leaves from total defoliation. Surprisingly little obvious damage on mangos and native rainforest trees, although this may have been that they had time to recover.
My sister-in-law has lost most of her garden plants (between Kyogle and Byron Bay) in the frost this year, it will be interesting to see if the huge A. maxima is still alive.
It got down to 1.9C here on monday morning. That is cold enough for me!
The above followup was added by Ben on July 24, 2007 at 12:26 am PST.
Sorry to hear they croaked. My heavily protected one saw 24F at the crown one night and defoliated. They pushed out some quick growth afterwards and are starting to look normal, but it seems that they aren't moving much this month. Hopefully they will start picking up steam again as we approach fall.
I have three seedlings from Inge Hoffman's tree that has survived every freeze since 89 (inclusive). Hopefully good parentage will bring strong offspring.
The above followup was added by iwan on July 24, 2007 at 12:53 am PST.
Hey Jeff, any particular story to that King? is it Illiwara?..Home Depot?..like Robert's from somebody's known history?..any idea why it would make it?..and congrats about it. To have a King with several feet of trunk in the Valley is something. They are great palms.
The above followup was added by stan on July 24, 2007 at 3:05 pm PST.
My seedling Bangalows from NSW, varied a lot, but that is what I was hoping for.
They had protection from the ground,most are not too tall yet, and most were under shade cloth, which is almost like not having it there at all, or it at times seems to actually amplify the damage.
I had some in the open, between a shed and fence, lost half of them, but they were small, only a foot tall, not growing very fast, don't get watered as much as the others.
They love the water, but will survive a lot of drought; they have to sit in the sun with totally dry soil for quite some time, before they will die.
Some died totally, leaving only the roots alive. Some died with the crowns alive, well the outer part alive, but the growth point dead. Most took the cold and lived, either with slight damage or no damage at all, at 21F, with 2 nights, with it getting down to freezing as the sun went down. That was a lot of cold for a lot of hours. Don't think things would of turned out so good, if we had not had sunny warm days each day before the killer cold hit each night.
Might of seen more kills too, if they had been taller with more trunk. Did notice that those with a hit of red in their new fronds died. They seemed more cold sensitive.
This season, you don't see the red tinted new fronds. I have only seen one, it was the other day, and it was real faint red.
I think I only lost around 25 percent over all or less out of 2,000 plants.
The above followup was added by DavidLJ48, Waterford CA, zone9 on July 24, 2007 at 3:13 pm PST.
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