Mexican Type Avocado?
I am going to buy one Mexican type avocado tree. Since I live in a very un-avocado type place, I don't have many choices as to varieties. So, it has come down to Mexicola Grande or Stewart.
I am very interested in peoples opinions who have tasted both of these, and which they think has the better taste. I would be extremely interested in this opinion of people who have tasted these two varieties when the avocados are grown in a relatively cool "cloudforest" type environment (as, say, opposed to the Central Valley type climate).
All opinions are valuable - thanks in advance!!
David Lawrence
PS: any comparison to the taste of Bacon is also very valuable, as Bacon is the only Mexican type avocado I think I have tasted. Or comparison to Hass, as that is the only type I can buy locally...
The following thread was started by DavidInAmityOrUsa,UsdaZ8 on April 19, 2008 at 1:26 pm PST
I had no idea I unleashed such a fury on the avocado thread down below. I just saw the thread. I noticed the climate comparison with Santa Cruz, and there, you should keep in mind that only Mexican types grow throughout Sunset zones 15-17 in Santa Cruz county, and all the commercial Hass avocado orchards are in a thermal belt along south facing slopes around 800 feet in the mountains, which are zone 16.
You're doing the right thing by working with Mexican avocados. I would recommend against Stewart, it is a very slow growing avocado that doesn't seem to like cold temperatures, even if it's hardy to 18F. I've seen trees in Santa Cruz that just looked terrible.
I love the taste of Bacon, it's very refreshing and not so heavy and buttery like Hass. Mexicola Grande is also really delicious, you can even eat the skin on it. Fuerte is the closest to Hass in flavor, and it's a Mexican type.
I would also recommend you try various seedlings.
Your main limiting factors will be cold Winter soils, freezes, and inadequate warmth during the bloom cycles. But other than that, you should be fine.
The above followup was added by Axel on April 19, 2008 at 6:12 pm PST.
My ex now owns the Bacon planted in about 1990 zone 24 Encinitas. The flavor of the fruit from that tree varied from Wow! to "well, at least it is an avocado" I know what Axel is saying about "refreshing" because the best of the Bacons had a lower oil content, a little more moisture and a full nutty flavor. I did like those better than the Hass, even the local Hass, bought in the stores. The other end of the spectrum was a watery and flavorless fruit. It may have been how I treated the tree but I got a lot more of the fruit without the full flavor.
Oh, another observation, when the fruit was left on the tree too long it developed longitudinal fibers. Not too bad, but annoying when you are looking for that perfect creamy avocado to go with the perfect tomato you just picked.
George
The above followup was added by George on April 20, 2008 at 10:10 am PST.
Axel:
Sorry if I seem to act like a rat on an avocado! I'm just interested in growing and eating them (hmmm, sort of a modified rat behavior, come to think of it...)
I am particularly intrigued by a comment you made in a thread at the start of the year (in discussing avocados for a Sheila B in zone 15, I believe, when somebody recommended Stuart:
"'Oh, Stuart is horrible, I wouldn't recommend that one in cool areas. You want Hass or other ones with plenty of guatamalan genes."
So, now, you seem very opposed to me trying exactly that, when I am proposing to emulate zone 17 or possibly zone 15 here in Oregon...
Comments?
Dazed and confused in Amity...
The above followup was added by DavidInAmityOrUsa,UsdaZ8 on April 20, 2008 at 7:33 pm PST.
I do now recall that the Bacon's I grew in Moorpark, CA were fiberous. I had forgotten that. Also, I now recall, they had some other disorder, I forget what it was called, but "corky butt end" would describe it...
I think my avocados were ground up by Calavo and made in guacamole. So maybe I just got a bad impression of the Mexican strains based on the inferior product I grew...
The above followup was added by DavidInAmityOrUsa,UsdaZ8 on April 20, 2008 at 7:38 pm PST.
But maybe your weather did that, I have never heard of or eaten a fibrous Bacon. But I well remember the Fuerte's years ago, before they had Hass in the markets, they were often fibrous.
David
The above followup was added by DavidLJ48, Waterford CA, zone14 on April 21, 2008 at 1:05 am PST.
I think the failure of alot of Avocado growers is that they pull the fruit off the tree months to early. The simple rule is, if the skins falls off freely from the seed, then it's ready if not you are too early. Once the roots start growing into the flesh you are too late :)
The above followup was added by Jason on April 21, 2008 at 6:45 am PST.
I can't say I'm expert in Bacon fruit but I have eaten a couple hundred of them from a few different tree and never found one to have either fibre or be watery. It's a top class Avocado for me in my climate, just doesn't have alot of fruit like Hass which tastes very different (less flavour and more...richer/oily less Avocadoish) grows much lower and wider and has 10 times more fruit. The true Avocado fanatic would much prefer Bacon but the average Joe public might prefer Hass
The above followup was added by Jason on April 21, 2008 at 6:48 am PST.
Here in the Central Valley, on a average winter, it can get down to 28F/-2.2C, plus or minus a couple degrees.
Here my fruit nearly all drop by mid Feb, but I guess in warmer towns, they hang on a month of two longer.
The fruits from even larger cities all taste about the same, plus they are sweet tasting.
Maybe if they did not get so cold and it was warmer when they where being fully ripened, maybe they might have a higher oil content and taste much better, and not be sweet.
As we have discussed before, fruit flavor and quality always seems too come down to climate.
David
The above followup was added by DavidLJ48, Waterford CA, zone14 on April 22, 2008 at 10:36 am PST.
My Bacon Flower in late September (Spring) and are 100% ripe 13-15 months later in late Spring to early Summer. Hass flower in early October and are ripe are you ready for this?...... in 18-26 months time between April (Almost Winter) and hang on the tree like that untill November at least if not into the following Summer. The long time and slow growth of the fruit just makes them better and better the longer they take. The home grown Hass after being on a tree sucking up nutrients for two years is something to behold :) well beyond anything the Queensland grown fruit can offer
The above followup was added by Jason on April 22, 2008 at 10:47 am PST.
First, this is not meant to offend anybody. Everybody is allowed an opinion, right?
I have been crawling the web, seeking out opinions on the best tasting Avocados. Admittedly, most of the opinions are from Southern California. However, here is my list of the five best tasting avocados::
Jan Boyce, Hass, Fuerte, Kona Sharwil, Reed
There are 4 hybrids and one Guatemalan on this list, according to the University of California Riverside site.
So, I can't bring myself to spend the money on a Mexican strain avocado; knowing I am going to spend a ton of money to provide it the summer dreaming warm sort of environment it will need in order to get the highest quality fruit...
And as for the idea of planting seeds to get the best tasting avocado, I'm very sorry but the odds of me planting a seed and coming up with anything better than what already exists is worse odds than winning the lottery. In my opinion of course...
I didn't cancel my order for the Hass tree; it should be here soon!
Thanks all for the inputs!!!
The above followup was added by DavidInAmityOrUsa,UsdaZ8 on April 22, 2008 at 8:22 pm PST.
Our local nursery is loaded with avocado trees.
The above followup was added by Axel on April 22, 2008 at 8:54 pm PST.
My last employer was headquartered in Watsonville Ca. I used to fly in to San Jose and drive over pretty freely. But I never had the time to do major projects, like learning what zone denial is. And now that I am "structurally unemployable", I will probably never be back down that way...
But, hey, I can now try growing all kinds of cool exotic stuff!
Axel, thanks a lot for hosting this site. I personally think it is the best general resource on sub-tropicals on the web - it is just simply amazing how often I end up here when I am googling around!
The above followup was added by DavidInAmityOrUsa,UsdaZ8 on April 23, 2008 at 6:47 am PST.
Lawn cllipings. Store bought and fully ripe. It took alot of salt,pepper and lemon juice to make it edible.
That means a home grown creamy tasty Avo must be worth,taste wise.$10.00 each....$20?
The above followup was added by Stan on April 23, 2008 at 9:08 am PST.