Avocado varieties....very interesting!!!
The following thread was started by Ed of Somis on November 02, 2009 at 7:46 am PST
Although I have this variety, it is still small and has not fruited. The following is info I garnered:
The tree was registered with CRFG on 4 July 1977 under the name of ‘Stearns’ and was found in Baldwin Park in the early 1920s by Alex Stearns, who propagated and grew it for many years. The fruit very much resembles the ‘Fuerte’ variety in appearance and was marketed by Stearns as an “early Fuerte,” the quality being as good or better than the Fuerte. Fruits weigh 8 to 14 ounces, have a medium-sized seed, and mature from October to February. Oil tests have shown the fruit to have 10% oil content on 1 September, 15% on 1 October, and 20 to 25% the remainder of the season. The tree is upright spreading -- somewhat similar in shape to the ‘Hass’ variety. Production is good and regular. Stearns is a fall fruit of high quality that could well produce commercial dividends for growers. The tree is frost tolerant to 26° F.
The Santana is like a Zutano, not very good. After I fruited one, I killed it with a chain saw.
The above followup was added by Jack, Nipomo on November 02, 2009 at 9:45 am PST.
Hey guys I wonder if you might also have info on an avocado variety called "Linda". I picked up a plant of this type at an orchard outlet recently but can't find out much about it. The fruit on sale were huge and hard-shelled.
The above followup was added by Phil (Australia) on November 02, 2009 at 10:10 am PST.
I dont have one but I've seen it around, it's famous for being a huge fruit, it doesn't have alot of fruit though just because the tree is busy making them so big
The above followup was added by Jason on November 02, 2009 at 4:43 pm PST.
J....do you think your Stearns is supposed to ripen before your Bacon, and Fuerte? I assume you may have these. My Bacon is a good early producer....not great. My Fuerte has fruit to pick this winter. I am not sure if it will overlap the Bacon or what. I am trying a new "Jim" this year. The info on the internet regarding Jim is all over the place! Many contradictory facts....especially regarding quality and frost tolerance. That is why I like talking to people who have grown these things...ha. The summer season is easy to cover with quality avo fruit.
The above followup was added by Ed of Somis on November 02, 2009 at 6:49 pm PST.
The best early Avocado is that that's been hanging there all Winter :), but I'm not sure how you guys go with fruit hanging all Winter if it's going to get really cold
The above followup was added by Jason on November 02, 2009 at 8:35 pm PST.
Ed, my Sterns was grafted two years ago. It's just a baby so no conclusions. I do have Bacon and Fuerte, prefer Fuerte but it does bear every other year. I did have Jim, it was hardy, but had strings through the fruit. Could be our climate or me. It was 15" at the base when I cut it down. In its place is Sir Prize, but no fruit yet. I'm still picking Hass here, next year Fuerte, Bacon, Hass, Susan are loaded! We have planted Nabal, Queen, Anaheim, Gordo, and others to see how many years they can survive before freeze kills them. Sometimes we are surprised.
The above followup was added by Jack on November 03, 2009 at 5:22 am PST.
J...I hope you do not mind me calling you out...I just can tell you love your avos (like I do). You have planted a couple of varieties that look really good to me (Sir Prize and Nabal)...I am considering those also. I do not know much about the Susan or Queen...other than the Queen is huge. As for the strings in your Jim...I was afraid of something like that. My Bacon gets stringy if it hangs too long. Let me ask you...does your Fuerte ripen the same time as Bacon? Try a Lamb Hass...if you want something good. It is 4-6 weeks later than Hass...I like it even better!
The above followup was added by Ed of Somis on November 03, 2009 at 7:26 am PST.
From what I know, Susan is not all that good, was said be good for Central Valley or San Joaquin Valley CA, because of it of its greater winter cold tolerance. Somewhat large fruit, thin green skin, but low quality flavor,
My Bacon here comes out too sweet and not a lot of flavor compared to a Hass type. I think flavor and sweetness depends how much cold it gets before Jan/? ripening.
I have tasted Sir Prize, very similar to Hass like in Texture and flavor.Though the one I had was firmer then a ripe Hass, ,but seems it was picked a bit early. I guess if it had been picked when more mature, it would of been even better of course.
David
The above followup was added by David Johnson, Waterford CA, zone 14 on November 03, 2009 at 8:25 am PST.
I think your totally right with that, about how much Winter time they do.
I've realised that the reason most of you guys don't like Bacon is that because for you with all your heat it ripens fast and doesn't even see one Winter on the tree?. You see here and in cooler climates it takes 12-14 months to ripen so it hangs all Winter. I think this is the key to get a strong flavour and oil content and is probably why California, NZ and Northen VIctoria make better Avocados than Florida and Queensland, even though they are better again here. For me here so long as the variety isn't a bad one then the slower it is to mature the better it will taste you could rank them on that alone without knowing anything else about them.
Is there any very late varieties capable of hanging over Winter in the valley?
The above followup was added by Jason on November 03, 2009 at 8:08 pm PST.
Jason, you maybe on to something or we are. I have never had anyone relate back to me on this idea, though some seem to be aware of it.
We do get ripe fast with our heat. Like Guavas, here they are ripening in Oct. but in the cooler Bay Area areas, they ripen in cooler months, a say a few months later. My first ripe ones when still hot are hard, no real flavor or sweetness. The later into Oct and Nov the last ones ripen, the sweeter and better flavored they are.
Maybe our best bet is a hardier Mexican Hass cross. Other then Sir Prize talked about below, don't think there really is a later ripening avocado, which would hold until the next season.
Kern and I found one Mexican type seedling in Livingston CA, not too many miles to the south of me. A more lower and spreading avocado tree, with nice sized pear shaped fruit. I nicked named it, Sweet, Nutty, Salty.
No sure how it is every winter, but the winter a few ago when we collected some and some scion wood. With each bite, when chewing, it changes, sweet, nutty and salty. I thought it was a novel taste experience, Kern and others who tried it, thought it was not good.
It was so sweet, actually the seed cavity was filed with a clear nectar like sugar syrup, the seed was floating in it.
A new variety call sir Prize might be able to make it through the winter here, it is supposed to be a cross with a Hass another Hass type, back to a Mexican variety.
I found this online about Sir Prize, never saw this info before. See info below.
I have what one Mexican gentlemen near here calls a Mexican Hass, he said his father or grandfather smuggled it in from Mexico 2 to 3 decades ago, from the state of Michoacan, He claims it is bit hardier then the regular Hass, but my two small trees are too small and too young to find out. Though his adult trees only took damage down to at most 1 inch wood in our last arctic blast down to around 20F/ -6.66C or colder, preceded by 14 hours below 32F on two of the 4 day freeze.
Sir Prize
The original 'Sir Prize' mother tree was planted April 1986 at Mr. Bob Lamb's orchards, Camarillo, California. The tree was first tested in the spring of 1991 and currently has been expanded for testing in commercial growing areas throughout the California industry. 'Sir Prize' originated from an open-pollinated breeding cross with 'HX48' avocado as the maternal parent. The 'HX48' was itself a 'Hass' seedling, thus the 'Sir Prize' can be described as a "grandchild" of 'Hass'.
The 'Sir Prize' avocado has several distinguishing characteristics that make it commercially valuable: 1. The appearance of 'Sir Prize', although significantly different from 'Hass', is more 'Hass'-like than any previous commercial avocado of its type. When ripe, both the black color of the skin and the pear shape of the fruit will lead most consumers to recognize it as 'Hass', or at least a "Hass"-type. 2. The season of maturity averages 6-8 weeks earlier than 'Hass' in any one location. 3. The overall fruit size is larger than 'Hass', and size increase occurs earlier in the season, making early-season maturity even more important. Currently large-sized, early-season, 'Hass'-type avocados like 'Sir Prize' command premium returns to growers. 4. 'Sir Prize' is primarily classified as a Mexican-race avocado. Mexican race avocados are typically more cold resistant and are, therefore selected for inland valleys and other regions unsuitable for 'Hass'. Cold tolerance is currently being tested. 5. Early production data indicate a heavy yield potential. 6. The flower type is '13% the compliment of 'A' ('Hass'). Commonly avocados of the W-type are used for enhancing pollination of 'Hass'.
The fruit is pear shaped with a distinctive ridge along one side. The extent of the ridge is slight to moderate and becomes almost unrecognizable as the fruit loses moisture during the ripening process. Fruit size is significantly larger than 'Hass', averaging greater than 350 grams on juvenile trees. This large size is recognized as favorable in the early- season market period. The skin texture is a medium-minus, and not truly pebbled like 'Hass'. Although the skin is flecked with numerous tiny islands of varying yellow shades, giving the illusion of 'Hass'-like pebbles. The skin thickness is fine-plus, similar to the commercial variety 'Fuerte'. This skin thickness is commonly referred to as "thin" as compared with the "thick" 'Hass'. The skin is pliable and separates easily from the flesh. The flesh color is similar and indistinguishable from 'Hass'. Flesh fibers are few and insignificant. The seed size is described as "small", with an average seed to fruit ratio of 10-12%; comparable 'Hass' ratios average 15% or higher. The flesh quality is considered excellent, equivalent with 'Hass'; exceeding 'Hass' during the early-season period. Preliminary postharvest handling features appear promising and should be "more than acceptable."
'Sir Prize' is upright in tree form, although this character can be influenced by pruning. The leaf type and shape is more typical of the Mexican race avocados than 'Hass'. Young leaf anthocyanin pigment is present varying from light to moderate. No anise fragrance has been detected in the stems or leaves. Peak bloom period is earlier than 'Hass' by several weeks, the flower type is 'B'.
The above followup was added by David Johnson, Waterford CA, Zone 14 on November 04, 2009 at 1:42 am PST.
David...the Sir Prize info certainly makes this sound like the "Superman" of avos. Obviously, it should be an excellent tasting avo. I am always dubious about developers/commercial growers' hypes...until I actually hear from individual growers' reports. I am anxious to hear what Jack from Nipomo finds with his. Any other growers out there of the Sir Prize??? My search for an xlnt/early avo keeps me looking at my very own "Bacon". Certainly NOT a GREAT tasting avo....but decent. I suppose I should also put out a "feeler" out there for anyone who has grown a "Stewart" avo. Almost bought that instead of my "Jim" last Spring.
The above followup was added by Ed of Somis on November 04, 2009 at 7:07 am PST.
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/EI-15.pdf
This is a link to a taste test done in Hawaii. In my opinion, there are variables not considered in this tasting.
Imo, Sharwils would be better appreciated if they were harvested at peak and then placed in cold storage, as I suspect is done in California. Instead, they are harvested over many months, which results in uneven quality, imo.
Of course, the small scale of the industry and the exorbitant cost of electricity in Hawaii both make this difficult.
fyi--I attempted to place the link below the first time and my message disappeared.
The above followup was added by gino45 on November 04, 2009 at 9:06 am PST.
David I was getting so excited reading that info on Sir Prize until I got the the very end and saw that it's a type B flower type!!!!! Disaster:)! at least for me because I don't have enough heat most Spring nights to pollinate Avocados overnight as is required of the Type B's. But 8 weeks later than Hass! I'd be still picking them at Christmass time 2 years and one month after Pollination :). Imagine that ! :D
The above followup was added by Jason on November 04, 2009 at 9:58 am PST.
I planted sir prize this year, we will see how it performs here. I am excited, it seems to have a lot of potential.
The above followup was added by Axel on November 04, 2009 at 9:26 pm PST.
I know that the flower types confuse, so i looked it up again.
http://ucavo.ucr.edu/Flowering/RemarkableFlower.html
Essentially below 70F, and the A/B rule goes out the window, does not apply.
But here, my early blooms do not take, they only set at the end of the spring bloom period, during the time of the late May, early June early summer warm up.
I think it is caused in part by our cooler temps here where we have more delta cooling. I was in Selma today, after my VA Dental appointment, visiting a kindly and funny passionate Mexican avocado grower in his 80s. He has like an acre of various Mexican varieties, which he sells. He gets a good set of fruit normally, but then down that way, they don't get much or any of the delta cooling at night, that we do here in the Central CA inland area.
I go to collect seed for rootstock and visit with him, and Gary, a CRFG member across the street from him.
This year my Mexican types did not set any fruit at all, it was too cool. I guess it might help to have both A and B, but not sure, maybe I do?
David
The above followup was added by David Johnson, Waterford CA, zone 14 on November 04, 2009 at 11:03 pm PST.
I wouldn't believe that rules don't apply below 70F, the only rule that does apply it that you wont get any fruit set in cool temps. 17c I think is the magic number for Avocado fruit set and I only get that during the very middle of the day during Avocado bloom and that means I mostly only get fruit set on type A trees. It's very noticable, every year without fail I get about 10 fruit on my Type B trees and 200 on the Type A's. It's doesn't matter what varietys they are, that's just how it is. If I get a couple of warm nights then I will get some fruit on Fuerte but it's nothing compared to the Type A trees. You definatly need both types to get any decent kind of fruit set in the type A's also
The above followup was added by Jason on November 05, 2009 at 5:25 am PST.
I did mean to say totally that once can throw out the A// B ruling. But it seems to apply more to where you live here in CA, it seems.
I know that here it is most often needed t have both to get fruit, but it helps. Commercially in Southern CA, where the commercial orchards are, many if not most growers I have read, have pulled the Mexican pollinators. But they have cooler temps then tropical areas, but warmer then we are here in northern CA.
I have noticed, and was reminded of it, as I made a trip to Fresno VA for a dental cleaning and after words traveled to Selma most 30 more minutes further south. Jesse, a kindly and often humorous Mexican man in his early 80s, has nearly an acre of different Mexican type avocados.
He gets a good set of fruit, and Gary a CRFG member gets a good set of paw paws when mine don't. Butt they are out of the delta air influence pretty much and don't cool down as night as much and as quickly we do here near the Bay Area.
Then when we get the spring/summer warm up, I loose a lot of fruit or even all of it, for seemingly no reason. I am wondering if we are cooler, and then the heat us stresses the plant more, then they drop the fruit.
This would explain too, why those B types trees in nearby cities like Modesto and Turlock, don't suffer the same fate as as those out in more rural areas.
I know my supposed B's had a good bloom this spring, but not one fruit set. But we had a cool spring here. It also affected some of my stone fruits, and retarded my early banana tree growth.
Hopefully my trees will do better when they are larger.
David
The above followup was added by David Johnson, Waterford CA, zone 14 on November 05, 2009 at 9:43 am PST.
I rather believe myself than the crfg on this one :) try a type A and see how much fruit you get :). I see no reason why a Full size Hass tree can't make 1000 fruit a year
The above followup was added by Jason on November 05, 2009 at 6:05 pm PST.
Jason, too cold for Hass types here, on many winters. That is why there is the preoccupation with hardier Mexican types.
Most winter max lows here only in the high 20s, at least in the larger towns and cities. A few winters ago, I had 21F, preceded by 14 hours below 32F/0C. Out lining country areas, dropped down to 15F to 18F/ -9.4C to
-7.7C. The only thing that will take that cold are the Mexican strains.
Though I do have some wood I gathered, from a fellow who says his father or etc smuggled it in from Mexico a couple decades ago or so. He has two large trees, 14 feet or more, they only had wood killed back to like 1 inch, that is good.
He says his Mexican Hass is cold hardier. But I don't know of anyone who had a regular Hass, that at that time to compare damage. But usually regular Hass die to the ground with temps like that..
I had a newly grafted Holiday take that cold, but it was under cover, open air sides.
We need hardier Hass like varieties.
David
The above followup was added by David Johnson, Waterford CA, zone 14 on November 06, 2009 at 0:30 am PST.