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A forum for growing fruits and rare tropical and temperate fruits, and tending our orchards

Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby DanMomii » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:55 pm

DanMomii
 
Posts: 53
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Location: Corralitos
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Hi everybody,

My question is there a big difference between avocado trees grafted onto seedling rootstock vs. clonal rootstock such as duke 7, when it comes to growth habits and especially disease resistance. I am going to order some trees from Epicenter and need to know what rootstock to pick. I don't know the exact prices they charge for the duke 7, I assume it will be more than the seedling grafted plants. Thanks.

Dan

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby Ed of Somis » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:26 am

Ed of Somis
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D....This is an excellent question. You will probably end up getting conflicting opinions. I have many seedling and clonals....so I have seen both sides up close and personal. My clonals which I chose come from a quality local nursery (Brokaw). They promise to be more root-rot resistant. I suspect there is some merit to that claim. Keep in mind....clonals do NOT have a taproot. The result is: they are less stable when young, and they are generally less agressive growers. I have had a two year old clonal blow completely over in high winds. That surprised me a bit. It was an eight foot tree. I have done quite a bit of grafting myself. I have used Bacon seedlings for rootstock. They are cold tolerant....and I have been told they are pretty resistant to rootrot, as well. It is your call. I would never use a Hass or like seed for a rootstock, however.

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby DanMomii » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:20 am

DanMomii
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:27 pm
Location: Corralitos
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Thanks Ed, just wondering if you have had any root rot problems with your bacon seedling grafted trees? Also is there a big difference in fruiting time between clonals and seedling rootstocks. Thanks.

Dan

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby CJD » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:52 am

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Having planted/replanted over 1000 avocado trees in the last 10 years, I would not plant anything other than a modern clonal rootstock tree. There has been much research on clonal rootstocks over last 20 years and much of information is available on the Internet. The latest UC selections of clonal rootocks (Dusa,latas,Uzi,Zentmyer...) combines high production with great disease resistance. This may mean the difference between an a live productive tree and a dead tree. In the past, many clonal rootstock trees where a trade-off, you traded disease resistance for productivity. Many people pulled out trees on G755 restocks because of lousy production. This in not true of the latest UC selections. Under disease free conditions, seedling trees MAY be acceptable but how long will it remain disease free? Seedling rootstocks are also variable each having different unknown growth characteristics. Planting a tree is a long term investment, I will not gamble on a seedling rootstock tree when truly great clonal varieties are available.

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby DanMomii » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:58 am

DanMomii
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:27 pm
Location: Corralitos
Climate Zone: 16
Thanks CDJ, just wondering what you think about Duke 7 rootstock from Brokaw, this is what Epicenter uses on it's trees. Thanks.

Dan

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby padsfan » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:09 pm

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Where can the average person buy clonal rootstock avocado trees?

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby Ed of Somis » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:08 pm

Ed of Somis
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D...as I predicted...you will get differing opinions on this. Sometimes there is truth on both sides of an issue. In avocado country you see many avo trees 50 years old and older. None of these were clonals. However, science has made many things better in our world. Keep in mind....you may get more honest answers and info from people who are not trying to sell you a product. Root rot is a concern for me in my heavy clay soil. I try to be smart in regard to minimizing my chances to get this disease in my avo collection. In 35 years of growing avos I have learned a lot. There is more to learn!

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby CJD » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:02 am

CJD
 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:41 am
Location: Carpinteria
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Dan
Duke 7 is a good rootstock. It has been one of the most popular rootstocks for over 10 years. It is considered by some as the rootstock that saved the California avocado industry. It provides moderate root rot resistance and has good vigor and fruit production.

padsfan
Finding clonal roostalk trees can be a challenge. I have only seen them at a local nursery only one time many years ago. The wait list at Brokaw and C&M is over a year and they have a minimum order of something like 50 or 100 trees. You could call either of these wholesale nurseries and find if they are shipping clonal trees to retail nursery in your area.


CJD

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby DavidLJ48 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:17 am

DavidLJ48
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Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
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I have found of late, that many nursery stock avocados do poorly here and when you check half or more of the roots, they are dead, with new roots forming only within the top 8 inches of the surface. What killed the lower roots, too much water a combo of that along with the potting soil??? This was not so much of a problem not too many years ago.

I have seen similar reports from others on Cloudforest Cafe over the last few years as well, trees with most of thier roots dead upon planting or they look ok, but then die after planting for no apparent reason, is their a explanation for that yet.

I have kept grafted Mexican seedings of the smaller Mexican skinned types, taken from trees, which are seedlings, which have survived the cold, fog and freezes and wet winters here in the San Joaquin Valley for 50 to 70 years. I have them in 5 gallon pots, and have under watered them and over watered them, and have never had one plant die from root rot and checking the plants, even after years in a 5 gallon pot, have never seen any root rot or root die off of any kind. Maybe it is a nursery or two, not all nurseries, ???
Sunset zone 14, USDA zone 9b

Re: Seedling vs. clonal rootstock for avocados.

Postby Ed of Somis » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:09 pm

Ed of Somis
Cloudforest Expert
 
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Ventura Co.
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D....very interesting. We too often focus on what we see above ground....not the priority we should have. The root system usually tells the story....especially with avos. I worry about root rot quite a bit. In our heavy clay soil....even the most deligent gardener can get this dreaded disease (including Brokaw Nursery).

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