If you like this topic, then share it or bookmark it:
  • delicious
  • digg
  • facebook
  • myspace
  • reddit
  • stumble
  • twitter
  • rss
  • bookmark
  • email


A forum for growing fruits and rare tropical and temperate fruits, and tending our orchards

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby Nicholas » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:00 am

Nicholas
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:11 am
Climate Zone: Sunset Zone 9
I wonder why it is so difficult to find a Duke Avocado tree, when I started looking for an avocado tree I wanted a Duke for its 23 Degree hardiness, I have looked everywhere I can think of, and have never come across a Duke. Does anyone have any idea where I might find one in northern California, or that can be shipped to northern California.
Nicholas.

Re:Duke and other hard-to-find.

Postby Ed of Somis » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:22 am

Ed of Somis
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Ventura Co.
Climate Zone: Sunset zone 21
Ordinarily retailers carry the most popular and best eating avo varieties. There are just a couple of exceptions....that carry hard to find cultivars. Duke is traditionally used as a rootstock....and not known for a great eating avo which is hugely popular.

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby Ed of Somis » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:34 am

Ed of Somis
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Ventura Co.
Climate Zone: Sunset zone 21
D...I appreciate your comments regarding Hass seedlings. I have long suspected that they made poor rootstocks. It seems you have done a bit of research on this, and had some experience. I have avoided them in the past....and now I am glad about that. I use my Bacon seeds for rootstocks. I know of at least 2 commercial growers that use Bacon, as well.

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby DavidLJ48 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:10 am

DavidLJ48
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 2144
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:38 pm
Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Climate Zone: Sunset Zone 14, USDA zone 9b
Nicholas

You are not the only one who would Duke, there have been other comments on Cloudforest Cafe over the years, including myself. I remember that William in Visalia had source. But then wonder why I never tried to get some scion wood from him, on one of my visits to his home. Maybe somewhat not wanting to impose myself on others, but thinking more so,just forgetting and just never getting around to it. William has shared various different plant seeds and scion wood with me before, and I am thinking if he had it at his home, I would of gotten some. Unless I was there the wrong time of year, or he once had it, then lost it to a arctic freeze or gophers. Too much time and flowed under the bridge, to be sure about anything. Then one forgets and moves onto something else to acquire.

You are right, Duke is highly talked about, but it seems so allusive, but how good is it really ? I wonder how big a fruit it is, I may even have something similar or even have it in my unknown cado plants, and not even know. I have one strain simply listed as Fresno, long pear black, a pear shaped fruit, about 4 inches long. that Kern and I found in a guys back yard in Fresno, hanging over the ally. Then I have one called Del Rey, that come from a good tasting similar, but a little smaller same type of fruit. A hardy good tasting seedling was discovered by locals around the Del Rey area south of Fresno. Jesse in Selma has grafted plants and has around 1/2 acre or more planted to the Del Rey. He sells all of the fruits he can grow from his place to walk in individual and those who buy to sell the fruits at flea markets and etc.

Ok, I guess time for more online research, I don't known why I don't get motivated many times to do things, until we get into discussions like this, maybe ADD and just busy to take the time, so many things in the fire.

But I found this right off. I had not realized it was discovered from Orville CA. That makes me wonder where John Wynne, a partner and later owner of Dave Wilson nursery got his hardy Mexican Avocado seed for research. The trial results were never fully completed, because of hit untimely death. I have some of that wood too, it is hardy, but does not tend to set fruit well, at least on a small limb, and the fruit does tend to crack and go back at the bottom but end, like some Mexican fruits tend to do. Did he gather buckets of seeds from Orville or from maybe another local descendant of that tree; somewhere I have the history of the research and tree. What fruits my grafted limb has produced, where really not all that good. Like some Mexican fruit strains, the fruits seem to have a inherit weakness, tend to ripen unevenly, crack and go bad at the butt end, and green at the stem end, or ???, is it the other way around, forget at the moment.

Ok I just read more, it says it is green skinned, and some say it is excellent fruit, others say no. So I guess anything I have is not Duke, funny somehow I always thought Duke was black skinned. Why the difference in noted quality is there more then one strain around, causing that problem or climate makes a big difference. Though I have found that mid winter maturing Mexican cados, seem compromised here in the Central Valley; loosing their flavor, becoming more watery and sweeter from the cold.

Here is the link: http://www.avocadosource.com/cas_yearbooks/cas_47_1963/cas_1963_pg_28-36.pdf

Propagation of the Duke has not been continued other than for occasional trees, because of the mediocre quality of the fruit, the somewhat erratic production, and the tendency for the fruit to develop cracks when mature. In California, Duke trees are growing in 12 counties; many of these are scattered back-yard trees that are still producing well.

Then you find this comment in the same article; The quality of the Duke fruit is listed in the checklist as excellent, but this is a point on
which there has been considerable difference of opinion. Many people connected with the industry believe the fruit to be of only fair quality. Because of the thin skin the Duke fruit has pr oven to be a poor shipper; consequently it must be sold on the local market.

David


Nicholas wrote:I wonder why it is so difficult to find a Duke Avocado tree, when I started looking for an avocado tree I wanted a Duke for its 23 Degree hardiness, I have looked everywhere I can think of, and have never come across a Duke. Does anyone have any idea where I might find one in northern California, or that can be shipped to northern California.
Nicholas.
Sunset zone 14, USDA zone 9b

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby DavidLJ48 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:27 am

DavidLJ48
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 2144
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:38 pm
Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Climate Zone: Sunset Zone 14, USDA zone 9b
In warmer areas, Hass like seedlings seem to make ok rootstock, but not in colder areas it seems. But it seems that even nurseries develop and use Mexican rootstock or a mix of the two here. Years ago, most commercial Hass like fields had Mexican varieties for cross pollination, now that is not the common practice in CA. I think the Hass we used to eat, had a higher rate of Mexican crosses, and had more hardiness. I sense that from the Chilean avocados we get here in the winter market, they still use pollinators.

David
Ed of Somis wrote:D...I appreciate your comments regarding Hass seedlings. I have long suspected that they made poor rootstocks. It seems you have done a bit of research on this, and had some experience. I have avoided them in the past....and now I am glad about that. I use my Bacon seeds for rootstocks. I know of at least 2 commercial growers that use Bacon, as well.
Sunset zone 14, USDA zone 9b

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby Nicholas » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:28 pm

Nicholas
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:11 am
Climate Zone: Sunset Zone 9
Clearly if the tree's will survive in Oroville they are very hardy, I have read somewhere that they will take down to 23 Degrees. That is the coldest recorded temp in my area in 25 years, so I would not have to worry about it the way I would about a Hass or Fuerte, Even Bacon,& Zutano are only supposed to take 25-26 Degrees. There are bacon, Zutano and Mexicola Backyard trees all over around here but no orchards, however acording to my grandpa there used to be a Fuerte orchard in Yuba City which is the next town over. No idea what happend to it. Fuerte is another Avocado Tree I would be Interested in if it were a little more cold hardy than 27 Degrees. I have read about a Pinkerton avocado that survived 24 Degrees even though they are rated at 30 Degrees. I wonder what kind of give might be possible in the Temp ratings of these avocados?

Nicholas

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby George » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:14 pm

User avatar
George
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:32 pm
Location: san diego
Climate Zone: ssz 23
You cannot speak strictly of a low temperature when you discuss cold hardiness. A tree's survival is dependent upon many associated factors. While the air temperature may be low it may be there for only a short period. While the temperature one night might not be at an extreme, the night time temperatures may have been close to an extreme for may days. How healthy has the tree been before the cold snap? How much water is diluting the sugars in the tree's flesh? Is the soil holding some warmth to radiate into the tree even though the air temps are low?
Though the Temps in San Diego do not fall as low as Southern Florida they can grow trees which are much more temperature sensitive. This has to do with the length of time our temperatures are in a range uncomfortable to those tropical trees, that the soil is cold and wet for a long time and that our coldest nights are often associated with drier air.
Utilizing any advantage a micro climate can provide and being willing to make changes to your orchard to utilize winter sun can allow you to grow a tree your neighbors cannot. Watching your irrigation schedule and managing your runoff can help to keep sensitive roots healthy in cold weather. It also allows you to get fruit way out of the season normal for that fruit.
I am in awe of a Royal Poinciana growing in Sherman heights here in San Diego. Totally random but planted exactly right. It is in a street margin so the winter rain is moderated by pavement. That same pavement provides a heat island for those cold winter nights. Air moving off San Diego Bay and through the buildings of Downtown is just a bit warmer. A stucco wall collects heat during the day and keeps the tree warm at night.
And I realize I am rambling on so.......

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby DavidLJ48 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:47 am

DavidLJ48
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 2144
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:38 pm
Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Climate Zone: Sunset Zone 14, USDA zone 9b
George I totally agree with what you said, it has been my observation as well, it is all about duration, air flow, low spots, high spots and etc. Years ago, Jeff Earl and I compared temps all of the time by email and by Cloudforest Cafe. His temps were the same normally, but he would get no damage or very little on his banana plants, and mine would get fried, all about duration and how much city heat sink capacity you have, and here also how close to the Bay Area coastal marine influence. Modesto is in Sunset Gardens zone 14, I am on the fringe, near zone 8 and 9.

But still Waterford give me a few degrees, from rural areas. My low in the Jan 2007 Freeze was 21F, preceded by 8 hours below 32F the first two nights, preceded by 14 hours plus below 32F the second two nights. It did hit my Bacon a little, the leaves dropped a few weeks later, but did not looked burned in the beginning. It burned my young white Sapote back to 1/4 to 1/2 inch wood. A Friend out of town got even lower then the average 18F, he was down to 15F. It burned his 16 foot narrow Bacon back to like 1/2 inch wood, and in a year, was producing again. It was so cold, and for so long, the ground in the shade of his barn, froze and stayed frozen for a few weeks.

This last winter was odd, only had a low of 27F, but I had some plants burn badly, that were not hardly hurt at all, from a similar 25F low the winter before. Even lost some potted plants under a roof, that were not harmed at all by the 21F in 2007. Some times it does not make sense, Hard to tell, as you know, the air flow changes, the heat in the ground changes and etc, many factors are in play.

David
Sunset zone 14, USDA zone 9b

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby jscogin » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:35 pm

jscogin
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:11 pm
Climate Zone: 9
Hello all. Getting ready to plant a sir prize and a gwen in a fresno residential area. Did anyone have any luck with these in the valley?

Thanks

Re: Sir Prize Avocado tree, how winter cold hardy and more.

Postby DavidLJ48 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:48 pm

DavidLJ48
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 2144
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:38 pm
Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Climate Zone: Sunset Zone 14, USDA zone 9b
I don't think anyone has one large enough, from our ranks of backyard growers and specialist. I had heard from someone in the Sequoia CRFG Chapter that some grower down that way, I think in the foothills, grafted Sir Prize to another tree and noted it was not that hardy. But this is relative to what ??? Originally it was being hyped for growing in the San Joaquin Valley area, but not sure if it has proven out. I think it will be backyard growers like us, to figure out the bottom line on this..

I have a Sir Prize, did ok last couple winters, so far no damage, covered with heavy frost cloth to the ground. That sound great, but that data is misleading, unless you consider my data in the next paragraph.

I had a low of 23.5F this last January, but the cold was not close to the ground, as I had a sensitive avocado which I totally tented with heavy frost cloth and it still lost green bark skinned wood down to 1 inch or more. A couple limbs I cut off the top, to tent it, laying on the ground unprotected, were not touched by the freeze. Will have to wait and see how the Sir Prize does when it gets taller.

In a Fresno residential area, you should be much more protected and prospects should be much better for you then me and others in rural area and small towns.

A CRFG member had a home he lost in east Modesto, it has lots of heat sink, Fresno should have as much heat sink or more. The trees uncared for, not winter protection; the Hass and Reed has died to the ground, the Zutano, Lamb Hass, and I think the Sir Prize have all been damaged from worst late freezes, but still survive on their own. He is on the eastern edge of Modesto too, the center of Modesto should be warmer.

I have noticed that those in the area in Fresno, really close to the River Valley, get some added protection, from extra cold drainage.

David


jscogin wrote:Hello all. Getting ready to plant a sir prize and a gwen in a fresno residential area. Did anyone have any luck with these in the valley?

Thanks
Sunset zone 14, USDA zone 9b

PreviousNext

Return to Fruits, Rare Fruits, Orchards and Exotics

Welcome Guest

Please register or login if you would like to post. It is currently Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:35 pm. (All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]).

Getting Around the Cafe

Login