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A forum for growing fruits and rare tropical and temperate fruits, and tending our orchards

Re: The best avocado I've tasted to date

Postby ellen in berkeley » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:44 am

ellen in berkeley
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:00 am
Location: berkeley near downtown
Climate Zone: sunset 17, ecoregion 11.1.1
The tree is a volunteer. Most likely a seedling of Hass. I cut off the top at about four feet. I realize that's kinda high, but that's where the fresh wood was when I decided to try to graft to it.
I graft to the sucker(s) while they are fresh if I can get scion then. I cleft graft (occasionally whip&tongue) because that's what I'm good at. I have never successfully bud grafted anything. Cleft worked fine on another avocado. I use parafilm and either rubber bands or splicing tape.
I suspect the graft may need more shade than it's getting. The one I worked successfully was done in January, that's when I had scion available. Maybe I should wait until Winter again.

Re: The best avocado I've tasted to date

Postby DavidLJ48 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:20 pm

DavidLJ48
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 2192
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:38 pm
Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Climate Zone: Sunset Zone 14, USDA zone 9b
Ellen

It seems you are doing things correctly, from what I picked up, from what you wrote; realizing that your exact reality may not be the same as mine.

4 feet up is ok, but you could of cut the plant further down and forced out lower wood. This season, I had some 5 gallon cados i wanted to redo, the variety was not good or etc. I cut some down to like 16 inches to force new limbs. One of them, was not quite so large in diameter, a little less then 1/2 inch. I did a modified cleft, modified from how even a normal modified cleft would be done. I placed it at 3 feet plus and it took, and is now growing nicely The only problem is, I find the larger modified cleft grafts don't take as well.

Too much sun and heat is a factor, they don't like too much direct sun and heat. I did 3 main groups this spring, the group in total reduced sun, filtered down to 50% did pretty good, good take. The other two groups, thought I had them in good shade most of the day, but realized later on one day, they were actually getting a few hours of direct hot sun, mid day. One group, only one out of 10 took, and the other ground, 4 took out of like 18 grafts.

I know that shade is vital, at least for grafting potted plants.Shade space is just so premium around here, I thought they would be ok where they were; I need to create more. Basically, I think the direct sun and heat wave when it hit, took the seedling out of flush growth, and the scion wood was not attached enough and they died. The ones obvious set and growing had no problem.

I modify cleft graft onto wood smaller then a pencil to nearly 1/2 once in awhile, prefer smaller, much easier to handle, and the take rate is higher.

I have never gotten a T bud to take, and chip budding, only a small percent of take, say 10 to percent or less.

I wrap everything from the union up in Buddy tape or Para film. If the wood is small, that maybe it, but more near pencil size and larger, wrap the union with 1/2 inch poly tape to tighten up the union and make it more secure again me, bird and playful cats. A few have told me, I should use rubber bands instead of green poly tape, but old habits are hard to break. At one time, the green poly tape was the only thing I had to use to do grafts and buds.

The plant must be in a very good flush of growth, and you placed it correctly, best rate of take, if place on the upper wood of a plant.

What kind of cado wood are you trying to graft on, Mexican or Guatemalan or a cross. I find that some Guatemalan doesn't take as easily as Mexican to Mexican, but some do. Sharwil has some Mexican, but is a bit hesitant to take, but Holiday that is supposedly pure Guatemalan takes very easily to Mexican seedlings. Does that figure, but how aggressive the plant is generically makes a difference too. Sharwil is fairly aggressive, but what about Holiday, it is not, so why does it take so easy to Mexican????

I find that the closer the match and the more aggressive the plant, the higher the rate take. If it is not, it takes takes more grafts to get what you want.

David
ellen in berkeley wrote:The tree is a volunteer. Most likely a seedling of Hass. I cut off the top at about four feet. I realize that's kinda high, but that's where the fresh wood was when I decided to try to graft to it.
I graft to the sucker(s) while they are fresh if I can get scion then. I cleft graft (occasionally whip&tongue) because that's what I'm good at. I have never successfully bud grafted anything. Cleft worked fine on another avocado. I use parafilm and either rubber bands or splicing tape.
I suspect the graft may need more shade than it's getting. The one I worked successfully was done in January, that's when I had scion available. Maybe I should wait until Winter again.
Sunset zone 14, USDA zone 9b

Re: The best avocado I've tasted to date

Postby Kobster » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:09 pm

Kobster
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:58 pm
Climate Zone: 9/10
Greetings,

I have a Bonny Doon and I was wondering if anyone would knows whether if it is an A or B type Avocado? I have had it in the ground for 10 months now and it already has 4 groups of flower clusters.

Thanks,

Kobs

Re: The best avocado I've tasted to date

Postby heritagegarden » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:23 am

heritagegarden
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:28 pm
Climate Zone: 9
Will avocados set fruit without another nearby? I have read that it must have a pollenizer but also read that it doesn't really need a pollenizer.

Thanks!

Re: The best avocado I've tasted to date

Postby DavidLJ48 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:55 pm

DavidLJ48
Cloudforest Expert
 
Posts: 2192
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:38 pm
Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Climate Zone: Sunset Zone 14, USDA zone 9b
This post should basically answer in part or all, the last two posts questions.

I went looking, not knowing myself, what flower type. In my first search hit, I found something interesting, a avocado tree nursery in Santa Cruz County, CA; have not come across this one before. They might be a small operation, they are not taking orders for 2013. I liked their site and pics of avocado, and they state their plants are on Mexican rootstock. Some of their other avocado data had flower type, but not for Bonny Doon.
http://www.epicenteravocados.com/

From the above link, now I understand, what Axel was saying, when he said he just picked up a Bonny Doon and Parrish avocado tree from Freddy and Ellen; so Axel knows about them, from this link to a Cloudforest thread.
http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/gardening/bonny-doon-and-parrish-avocado-t824.html

I looked on line, saw no data on Flower type, though some personally might have figured it out. It seems that because it is a local, none commercialized fruit variety, no research might have been into the flower type.

With that said, avocado plants in CA, and other cooler areas, which are low temp safe for avocados, don't normally need a A or B flower type to get fruit. Commercially in SoCal and along the CA Coast, they used to plant pollinators, but realized over time, not needed. So now they plant the higher price bringing Hass and Guatemalan types only, no inter planting of opposite flower types. They might or might not get less production, but they more then make up the difference in having all higher priced fruits.

In tropical hot areas, it stays quite warm at night, that affects male and female flower parts. In cooler areas like here in CA, cooler nights affect the bloom, so that there is a small over lap of sexual parts function, so pollination does occur. Tell me, if I did not explain that clearly.

In a recent Avocado thread here on Cloudforest, it was considered too, how even avocados of the same flower type, with slightly different times of female and male flower part activation, even the same flower type might help to insure pollination and a greater fruit yield.

Here is some basic instruction on determine flower types. http://ucavo.ucr.edu/Flowering/FloweringBasics.html

David



Kobster wrote:Greetings,

I have a Bonny Doon and I was wondering if anyone would knows whether if it is an A or B type Avocado? I have had it in the ground for 10 months now and it already has 4 groups of flower clusters.

Thanks,

Kobs
Sunset zone 14, USDA zone 9b

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