Northwest Palms

Who's growing Trachycarpus princeps?

What is your experience? How blue is it? How did it fare this winter? I had been looking for one for a long time but I finally found one for sale and it was very green with only the slightest blue/silver to the undersides of the leaves. I have seen more blue/silver on fortunei's. Does it take age to develop better color? The one I found was in a 2 gallon pot. It had LONG leaf stems and a pretty slender trunk.

Thx

The following thread was started by Travis on February 15, 2009 at 7:37 pm PST

I suspect you have the so-called 'Green Princeps', aka Trachycarpus sp. 'Nova'.

The bad news is that it is not blue/white and as you have observed it looks more like T. fortunei than princeps.

The good news is that it grows extremely fast, is tough as nails and is different enough from fortunei to be worth pampering anyway. It is reported to have come from the Stone Gate region - the same habitat as the real princeps.

Mine got planted in the ground last February (yes, February), chewed up by squirrels, then moved twice. Still, it did not bat an eyebrow, put on a few leaves and survived this winter so far unscathed. I did cover it well for the December cold spell, though. Below is last spring's picture after the squirrel treatment, it looks better now.

The above followup was added by Alex, Portland-Hillsboro, Oregon (z8b) on February 15, 2009 at 8:01 pm PST.

I also have two blue princeps' (from Ruud's seed), one still in a pot. Both are doing well, but I am not taking any chances. The pot is inside most every night and the one in the ground gets covered if the temperature dips below 27F. It was heated during the cold spell.

The one in the ground grows very slowly (grew one leaf last season), but was is the first year and it was VERY small to begin with.
Strangely enough, the potted one is faster, even though it is smaller.

The picture is last year also, looks about the same now.

The above followup was added by Alex, Portland-Hillsboro, Oregon (z8b) on February 15, 2009 at 8:09 pm PST.

Anyone know a source for the true blue princeps?

After reading about the 'Nova' I'm sure that is what the ones I saw were. I'll probably get one for the heck of it.

Travis

The above followup was added by Travis on February 15, 2009 at 8:25 pm PST.

Small plants have been tested from 5 F. to three weeks of highs over 100 F. without problems.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t281/Stevea07/IMG_0606b.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t281/Stevea07/IMG_0603b.jpg

The above followup was added by Steve-N.Alabama-7b on February 15, 2009 at 8:44 pm PST.

PIC 1

The above followup was added by Steve-N.Alabama-7b on February 15, 2009 at 8:47 pm PST.

PIC 2

The above followup was added by Steve-N.Alabama-7b on February 15, 2009 at 8:49 pm PST.

This is the one I got from you. From the same batch, probably?

The above followup was added by Alex, Portland-Hillsboro, Oregon (z8b) on February 16, 2009 at 0:11 am PST.

N/M

The above followup was added by Alex, Portland-Hillsboro, Oregon (z8b) on February 16, 2009 at 0:13 am PST.

this one is quite a hardy palm. i have a couple in the garden (from seedlings to the size of the one in the picture from Alex...)
this winter i was so stupid to protect my largest one with fleece and a pot on top of this. i gave it no aeriation for two weeks and this has resulted to budrot. my smaller onprotected princeps palms have no damage at all.
even in colder parts of the Netherlands it had no damage after -15°C and two weeks of subzero temperatures! it is even hardier than manipur. my manipur show some leafburn but non of the princeps do....

here's a picture of my oldest princeps in januari 07..i planted it in the garden in spring 07...

The above followup was added by kristof p (Belguim) on February 16, 2009 at 8:35 am PST.

this is the same one in early august 08...
slow growing?...

The above followup was added by kristof p (Belguim) on February 16, 2009 at 8:36 am PST.

the princeps 'green' or 'nova' is a totaly differant palm. still nobody knows exactly what this one is but it's also a beautifull palm. onfortunately it seems to be a bit les hardy to cold(especially frost) than the princeps. i had a nice one in the garden but was killed in the winter of 07/08...i planted a few new ones in the garden last year but i gave them some protection after my previous experiances with the 'nova'....
one of my palms i bough as takil back in 2006 looks a bit like a 'sp nova' but i doubt it is one. it grows very, very slow (1 1/2 leaf a year) for a Trachycarpus species and it has fewer leaflets than any Trachycarpus species i know of (never more than 19). i do like it very much and it is very hardy....

here's a picture of this one...the leaflets are also very deeply cut in the blade

The above followup was added by Kristof p (Belguim) on February 16, 2009 at 8:52 am PST.

a picture of the thin trunk...

The above followup was added by kristof p (belguim) on February 16, 2009 at 8:54 am PST.

Hello Alex: On the green princeps (Nova) you say "tough as nails". What do you know about cold hardiness?

The above followup was added by Jeff, Victoria, 8b on February 16, 2009 at 12:47 am PST.

Not Alex but mine have been out 2 years now Jeff and last year received -6 C / 21 F with no damage for 1 week and they only have 4 or 5 leaves and so I concur that they are tough palms.

The above followup was added by Kev spence on February 16, 2009 at 1:47 pm PST.

I meant tough more in the sense of 'withstands abuse' than 'cold hardy' - as it was mishandled by me (replanted twice in the winter and then once in fall and the squirrels (chewed up badly) and it still kept growing right through it.

Although it is likely cold hardy also as other have said.

The above followup was added by Alex, Portland-Hillsboro, Oregon (z8b) on February 16, 2009 at 2:25 pm PST.

Yes that is correct. Yours is from the same seed batch. The ones in the photo germinated in the first two weeks. 30-40% germinated 6-9 months later and yours came from that group. The rest germinated at the end of winter the following year.

Yours looks very healthy. It should double in overall size over the next year.

The above followup was added by Steve-N.Alabama-7b on February 16, 2009 at 2:53 pm PST.

Steve: Please look for my email.

Thanks

Kev: Thant sounds like good news, given their tender looking fronds. Were they protected when they endured -6C? You said "no damage for 1 week". I assume that means 1 week below freezing?

Have you tried T. manipur under similar circumstances?

The above followup was added by Jeff, Victoria, 8b on February 16, 2009 at 3:14 pm PST.

What conditions is it growing in (soil structure, acidity, moisture, fertilizer, sun)?

The above followup was added by Alex, Portland-Hillsboro, Oregon (z8b) on February 16, 2009 at 3:31 pm PST.

Jeff, I am also growing T. manipur. I have heard that it is closely related to Trachycarpus oreophilus. Both are very, very finicky as to growing conditions. As seedlings, they require much less water than princeps or they get blotches on their leaves or die. They don't like strong sunlight either, or they turn yellow. If they get too hot, they stop growing. I haven't tested their cold hardiness yet.

The above followup was added by Steve-N.Alabama-7b on February 16, 2009 at 3:45 pm PST.

i have them growing mostly in the shade of other plants. i have a sandy soil which is slightly acidic. the soil has a good drainage... i give al my palms extra water during the warmer months and the larger ones also get some fertilizers. i've heard about problems with rot at the base of the stems but so far never had that problem (i always plant them on a little hill).

i see you also grow T. manipu. it is indeed close related to manipur and to takil. from my experiances the leaves burn sooner from freezing temperatures and frost than princeps and are prone to budrot in cool wet conditions but i think they wil outgrow that when they get bigger. a lot of Trachycarpus species seem to be a lot more sensitief to budrot when the get to the size when they start to have a small trunk and the divided leaves...
my onprotected T. latisectus and oreophilus seedlings are also undamaged...

i see you are refering to Kev's minimum temp of -6°C but in the Netherlands it has seen -15°C and two weeks of subzero temperatures(day and nigth) without leafburn or budrot(so far) so it looks like a winner for my and simular climates

The above followup was added by Kristof P (Belguim) on February 16, 2009 at 4:06 pm PST.

i see it is Steve who grows the manipur...

"i see you also grow T. manipu. it is indeed close related to manipur and to takil."

i meant that T. manipur is closely related to T. oreophilus and T. takil.

The above followup was added by kristof p on February 16, 2009 at 4:10 pm PST.

Glad to hear that it is growing well in acidic soil.

There has been a hypothesis floated here that princeps may not prefer acidic conditions, since its native habitat consists of limestone rock cliffs.

The above followup was added by Alex, Portland-Hillsboro, Oregon (z8b) on February 17, 2009 at 2:06 am PST.

I'm not sure what to think of this palm. When I first bought the seeds my understanding of its colour based on pics shown was that the fronds would have a blue hue. My understanding now is that the fronds are green on the top (like the small plants I have) and eventually will be powdery white on the bottom. Is this correct, and if so, does anyone know when we can expect the underside to have more of a powdery white appearance?

The above followup was added by Linda Denman Island, BC 8b on February 17, 2009 at 7:50 am PST.

"Kev: Thant sounds like good news, given their tender looking fronds. Were they protected when they endured -6C? You said "no damage for 1 week". I assume that means 1 week below freezing?"

Jeff no protection during that week in which apparently it hardly rose above freezing though we were on holiday so I did not see it first hand.lol

The above followup was added by Kev Spence on February 17, 2009 at 12:43 am PST.

This is 1 of 2 that I have had for 7 years that were imported from Ruud as rootless stumps. They seem to have survived -9.5Cc. They have been planted out for about 3 years.

John

The above followup was added by John on February 17, 2009 at 1:57 pm PST.

I ordered a few today from Gary Wood at South Coast Palms. He gets his seed from Ruud so I feel safe it is the real thing. Here's a pic of what he's selling for $10. Got a few other cool things. Too bad I don't live closer as he has some really nice stuff in 5 and 15 gallons that are too big to ship. Roger... you have another trip planned?

The above followup was added by Travis on February 17, 2009 at 4:15 pm PST.

but most likely in early winter. But I don't think we are going that far down. It is a long drive, I bought 10 T. Princeps for myself and to sell a few when they get bigger. Gary has the best prices I've seen. I did get your email and will email tomorrow.

The above followup was added by Roger in Olympia on February 18, 2009 at 4:24 pm PST.