Trachycarpus princeps germination!
Jeff (Victoria) you have some. Anything yet?
The following thread was started by Barrie in Lantzville on November 29, 2002 at 11:07 pm PST
Can you tell us your method? How did you treat the seed before planting? Did you plant in baggies, trays, pots? What type of soil was used? How many of your 20 have sprouted? How much moisture? Were they in light? Were the seeds on top of the medium or how deep?
I know thats a lot of questions but you are one of the few that have been successful. I also have had 20 seed planted since Jan.-Feb. time frame and exposed to various temps but no sprouts yet so maybe it;s time to go back to steady bottom heat. I'll be happy with just one sprout at this point. Thanks for any help.
The above followup was added by Jeff zone 8 N.C on November 30, 2002 at 2:19 am PST.
My friend also has the seeds sprouting. He has 6 out of 20. He removed his from heat and left them in the house at room temperature in a bag of compost. It sounds as though room temperature is what it needs if Barries bottom heat was set at 72f. Golden Lotus are selling the seeds at $200 for 100 if you guys want to club together. They also have Nanus and Guihaia Argyrata, but only in large minimum 500 orders. Have any of you guys heard of a variegated Trachy? Martin Gibbons has one at the palm centre in London, its fairly small, he is growing it on to see if the variagationleaves the plant with age.
The above followup was added by Nigel Kembrey on November 30, 2002 at 8:40 am PST.
"Plant Delights Nursery" in Raleigh, North Carolina supposed to have one. I do not think they have a picture on their website, but I have seen postings on other boards where other people have seen it.
The above followup was added by Jeff zone 8 N.C on November 30, 2002 at 2:48 pm PST.
Did you allow your seed to dry out at any point after you planted them and then re-wet them?
The above followup was added by Jeff zone 8 N.C on November 30, 2002 at 6:12 pm PST.
That's great Barrie!!!
Nothing here yet. I just checked the seeds about an hour ago. They are solid, but no sprouts. The seeds on my fridge are kept at about 72°F soil temp.
Please let me know what growing medium you used? What sort of varying temps did you use before your warming tray? Did they have any exposure to cold (to mimic winter)? Have they been in a greenhouse with variations in day/night temps?
Mine have been planted since January.
That's so exciting.
The above followup was added by Jeff, Victoria, BC, 8b on December 01, 2002 at 4:50 am PST.
The T. princeps seeds have germinated in a sterile potting mix with about 40% sand added. All of the seeds where placed in a sealed "Zip Lock" bag and the soil mixture was moist all the time. Periodicly the bag would be opened for a half day or so. Most of the time they where left on a S.E. window ledge exposed the sunlight and the warmth it provided. Cool at night, with temps maybe 58 - 60f.
The above followup was added by Barrie in Lantzville on December 02, 2002 at 0:04 am PST.
Thanks for the details Barrie! That gives me hope as my seeds have been treated almost the same except they are in cell trays and my medium is peat-lite type soil with the seeds surrounded with spagnum peat to prevent rot.
The above followup was added by Jeff zone 8 N.C on December 02, 2002 at 0:16 am PST.
Are your seed trays open to the air?
I ask, because if they are then you are at high risk of fungus gnats destroying your seeds. They love peat moss and burrow into the seed just as the first sprout appears. They lay their eggs inside and the larvae eat the seeds from the inside.
The above followup was added by Jeff, Victoria, BC, 8b on December 02, 2002 at 4:33 pm PST.
Thanks for telling me about the fungas gnat danger. I use long strand spagnum moss, ground fine, which I understand is the living plant harvested from the top of a peat bog, It has anti fungus properties unlike the dead regular peat moss deeper in the bog. I rarely have seed rot with this. I would still think that fungas gnats would get in this too. Do you know?
Luckily, in this case, and in most cases, I also put my trays in ziplok bags for smaller trays and clear garbage bags for larger trays. I find the trays retain moisture better and weed seeds are kept out. That could explain some other instances of poor germination though. I will be making changes now to make sure all bags are sealed tight and by starting more seed in those plastic ziplock tubs that I think work better than any other bag, tray or pot. Again thanks for the tip.
The above followup was added by Jeff zone 8 N.C on December 03, 2002 at 0:15 am PST.
Long strand spagnum moss may prevent fungus, but it will not stop fungus gnats. I have had someone tell me that these bugs have crawled into the drain holes in a pot and up to the seeds on the surface. The top of the pot was sealed, so they couldn't enter through the top. It is believed that they can "smell" the seeds.
The above followup was added by Jeff, Victoria, BC, 8b on December 04, 2002 at 3:27 am PST.
Jeff,
Here is a photo I took of the Variegated Trachycarpus at Plant Delights this Spring.
The above followup was added by Gary, New Bern, NC, z8a on December 05, 2002 at 8:18 pm PST.
This is a variegated Trachycarpus I found growing in a group of young 7 gallon ones this year. I plan to plant it out next year to see if it keeps the variegated leaves. Three or four leaves were variegated.
The above followup was added by Gary, New Bern, NC, z8a on December 05, 2002 at 8:24 pm PST.
Man! Those variegated Tracy's look awsome. I sure hope yours retains its colors Gary. I wonder if the seed would give a high percentage of variegates. Wonder if the percentage would be higher if pollen was crossed between the two. It would sure be worth an exchange of pollen between you two when they mature.
The above followup was added by Jeff zone 8 N.C on December 05, 2002 at 11:07 pm PST.
Thanks for sharing Gary. That is a very cool palm . That must be very rare? If it does keep those variegated fronds long term be sure to contact me in the future when one of them has seed. I'd like to purchase some from you. Cheers, Joe
The above followup was added by Joe, Salt Spring Island on December 07, 2002 at 3:15 am PST.
Joe, As Jeff mentioned, when these two variegated Trachycarpus start flowering, I plan to see if is possible to cross pollinate them for a better chance of the variegation being carried over to the offspring. On the down side, I had one a few years ago with just one variegated leaf and it did not keep the variegation as it got older. Since this one has three variegated leaves maybe there is a chance.
The above followup was added by Gary, New Bern, NC, z8a on December 07, 2002 at 1:11 pm PST.
Since the chimera that causes variegation is a developmental (mitotic) rather than genetic (meiotic) aberration, it seems unlikely that one could increase the probability of variegated seedlings through sexual reproduction (if it were possible, the Japanese, who are crazy about variegated palms, would have already done so).
Let me try this analogy: a boy is born with a cleft palate. This wasn't caused by faulty genetic instructions (hard-wired in the DNA), but happened because messenger RNA "made a mistake" in carrying out the instructions completely when forming the soft tissue in the skull. This renegade group of cells in his mouth have nothing to do with his sperm cells, so when he grows up and has children of his own, there is no increased probability of his children being born with cleft palates -- the defect was developmental not genetic.
In theory, meristematic cloning (tissue culture) offers hope, but obtaining viable explants has proved elusive, and even if it were successful, not all cell groups would contain the variegation-producing chimera. The only variegated palms that can be propagated at this point are those that are vegetatively divisible such as Rhapis.
The above followup was added by Steve in Brookings, OR on December 12, 2002 at 0:28 am PST.
I noticed this varigated Trachy you posted and now it has me quite curious. You see, I planted Castillon Timber bamboo at our old house before moving here last year and the bamboo had normal green leaves.
I went back this past fall to have a look and talk to the new owner of the property and it is
very evidently still a Castillon but has become varigated.
That leaves me wondering if soil alkalinity/acidity and or nutrient values
have anything to do with varigated leaves.
Clearly with Hydrangeas you can control color with acidity. We had one transform color on us. I'd have to ask my wife what the nutrient recipe was but it was remarkable.
Food for thought-it may not be entirely genetic other than the propensity to become varigated under the right conditions.
ie varigation may be a condition not a genetic marker
The above followup was added by Carl McIntosh on December 12, 2002 at 0:58 am PST.
I have just read that some of you have grown Trachycarpus princeps from seeds.
I have been looking for seeds from this particular palm for some time now so I would like to ask where you´ve gotten the seeds.
The above followup was added by Anne on May 20, 2003 at 1:54 am PST.
Dear Group, I know that you have absolutely no idea who I am - but I recently picked up a large variegated Trach here in Houston, TX. If possible - could one of you please respond to this message directly to my email address at rtcrtcrtc@hotmail.com. I have some questions regarding it's rarity, possible "reversion", and cultural requirements needed for successful growth with the variegated pattern. And I can send photos if anyone is interested... Thank You, Rich.
The above followup was added by Richard Chamblin on June 06, 2003 at 6:02 am PST.