31 flavors of Passifloras
Has anyone had any dealing with this company?
The following thread was started by Andy Fritze, Maple Valley Wa, 8a on December 29, 2002 at 4:00 am PST
Sorry, no experience dealing with this company. It's stock is fairly typical of Passionflower growers ever since Vandeplank popularized them, tho. And Passionflowers being rampant as they are, this grower is probably able to produce plenty of healthy stock.
I do have experience ordering from Mike Kartuz of Kartuz Greenhouses:
http://members.aol.com/kartuzexotics/passion.htm
The bad news regarding the 31 flavors is that most of them are tender. If you have had any experience with any of them other than the well-known hardies, I'd be interested to hear about it.
There are 3 kinds of tenderness with Passionflowers: high-heat requirements, tenderness to freezing, and both at the same time!
P. incarnata for example is quite root hardy, thriving in the hills of Virginia where winter temperatures routinely reach -10F. Unfortunately it does need plenty of heat to wake it up and thrive. It can be grown here if you give it a hot spot; otherwise it may go dormant and never wake up again.
P. incarnata is interesting. It is basically a tropical plant, probably originating in northern South America at essentially equatorial latitudes (where I believe it is still found), that has naturally spread north in relatively recent time-frames and adapted as a die-back perennial. In the tropics it remains evergreen. This probably accounts for its high heat requirements.
Beware! Passiflora incarnata varies considerably in coloration. I have seen beautiful saturated purples, and UGLY, MUDDY shades approaching grey.
P. incarnata is one parent along with P. cinnebarina of the beautiful but disease-prone hybrid "Incense". The flowers are fragrant and the plant will produce edible fruit if cross-pollinated. I think it needs some heat to thrive, maybe not as much as P. incarnata. I believe it was bred by the USDA to produce a hardier plant capable of producing Passionfruits. That it is (it is hardy to about 0F) and does, but it turned out to be too virus-prone to be a practical commercial crop. I could never get it to thrive either, although some others have gotten it going here (they probably have a sunnier yard than I do).
Passiflora lutea is probably more tolerant of cool summers but it is a very primative species that is not showy. It looks more like a Cucurbitaceae--which is the family that the Passionflowers are most closely related to.
P. caerulea is not only incredibly hardy and cool-tolerant, but has figured in a lot of hybrids. None of them ever seem to be as hardy, tho.
Supposedly they are, or tend to be, sterile. I wonder, tho, if that is simply self-sterility that people have reported. MOST (all?) Passionflowers are self-sterile; this is normal (that's why you don't get passionfruits from P. caerulea unless you planted at least 2 genetically-distinct specimens). If the hybrids aren't really sterile--as I suspect might be the case--then perhaps they could be back-crossed again to try to increase their hardiness.
P. caerulea x P. alata produces a hybrid that is fitfully root-hardy here, as long as it gets established.
One whole subgenus of tantalizingly "almost" hardy species are the Tacsonias. This is the group that bears some of the tastiest Passionfruits.
Most of them tolerate a few degrees of frost--and no more! Most of them come from the Andes at very low latitudes, and while they must put up with frequent nightly frosts at the high elevations at which they grow, days warm up fast in the tropical sun.
A few of them range further south. I have often wondered if any of these are more tolerant of real seasons.
For example, P. pinnatistipulata comes mostly from Peru, but it has a disjoint population in Chile living in humid canyons along rivers. There, it would have to put up with cool, rainy, and mildly frosty winters.
There is at least one other Tacsonia in the hills of southern Brazil.
Because they are a distinct group within the genus, they probably don't cross well with things like P. caerulea.
Some of the other southerly species are known to tolerate a few degrees of frost, but I have not heard definitive reports. It makes me wonder why P. caerulea is so hardy compared to practically all the othe species. I don't think its native habitat in southern Brazil is particularly cold; the hardiness appears to be vestigial from a colder climate.
The above followup was added by Rob Wagner on December 29, 2002 at 9:57 pm PST.
Rob, thanks for all the info and the link to Kartuz Greenhouses, the site provides minimum temps and he looks like a good source.
I just recently built a 24' trellis, which has four posts. The plan is to plant 4 of the most hardy varieties and 4 marginal varieties. Two plants per post.
Hopefully the hardy varieties will cover and provide some insulation to the others. Also, the trellis is in a south facing position, so it will get heat in the summer.
I'm very interested in experimenting with red or pink varieties. I't seems that most of the Passifloras I've seen around here are some combination of blue, white and purple.
I'll let you know what works and what doesn't.
Also, in regards to the discussion about hardy citrus we had a while back. You asked me about the leaf structure of the Ichang Lemon as compared to Ichang Papeda. The Ichang Lemon is double lobed like the Ichang Papeda. But, the end lobe on the Ichang Lemon is larger and more elongated as compared to the Papeda.
The above followup was added by Andy Fritze, Maple Valley Wa, 8a on December 30, 2002 at 2:50 am PST.
I am thinking of using P. caerulea to cascade down from the top of a 3 ft retaining wall I have. I don't really want to cover the entire wall since it is built of large boulders, just soften it. Typically you see ivy used for this but I want something different and something fragrant and flowering would be a plus.
Rob, would the growth habit be suitable for this?
I also came across a company in Washougal that grows passiflora and I'm wondering if P. caerulea 'clear sky', which has much larger flowers than the species might be worth a try.
Here's the link to their site:
http://www.gkexoticplants.com/Passiflora.htm
The above followup was added by Dave, Federal Way WA on December 30, 2002 at 5:33 am PST.
[I'm very interested in experimenting with red or pink varieties. I't seems that most of the Passifloras I've seen around here are some combination of blue, white and purple.]
Sigh.
P. alata is rose, but not quite hardy enough. It's hybrids with P. caerulea will produce flowers with a bit of rose in them.
Tacsonia is rich in pinks, some of them quite vivid.
P. mixta and P. jamesonii both come from very high elevations in the Andes, about has high as Passionflowers occur I think. P. jamesonii might not be in cultivation--plants called that in California usually turn out to be hybrids. Axel might know more about this, tho. P. mixta exists in cultivation in Europe I think; maybe it has been introduced here. I doubt they are quite hardy enough, unless perhaps they can come back from suckers.
P. mollissima is pink. It is tantalizingly close to being hardy. But just not quite! It is considered a weed in many subtropical climates.
P. pennatistipulata is pink. No word on availability. Might be hardy! Comes from a part of the world where a lot of common reasonably hardy Chilean plants come from.
Hmmm...there is a vivid pink I am thinking of that produces what is supposed to be about the tastiest Passionfruit. I'll look it up and post again.
Reds are problematic. The hardiest is possibly P. vitifolia. I don't think it takes long, hard frosts.
The above followup was added by Rob Wagner on December 30, 2002 at 7:11 am PST.
I would love to be able to grow Passiflora x piresii, I love bright orange flowers.
Dave I have P. caerulea 'clear sky' and its a heavy bloomer but only fruited once when we hit 100f several years ago. Mine is almost 40' now and blooms till the first frost and flowers are large and vivid.
Locally one of the nursies has Passiflora Vitifolia "Red Passion Flower and Passiflora Coccinea both have huge flowers. They were both in 15gal size I think. I tried Passiflora "Coral Seas" but it never returned from the roots. A fast growing annual vine.
The above followup was added by Roger,OLYmpia on December 30, 2002 at 7:36 pm PST.
If anyone plants P. caerulea, or a related species, make sure you put a barrier around the roots (unless you want it to spread). I found it to be quite invasive, with shoots coming up quite a distance from the parent plant.
The question I have is whether there is a source for the hybrid between the P. edulis and one of the cold hardy varieties? This was successfully crossed a few years ago by someone in the southern US.
I am looking for a cold hardy variety that has good fruit. I have successfully got fruit from P. caerulea and P. caerulia "Constance Elliot" but the pulp wasn't very tastey.
The above followup was added by Jeff, Victoria, 8b on December 30, 2002 at 7:38 pm PST.
Not sure of the spelling but that is a hot-pink I was thinking of earlier with what is supposed to be a particularly delicious fruit.
Jeff, have you tried 'Incense'? It's fairly readily available. It is definitely hardy if correctly situated and should be quite palatable. You will need a cross-pollinator. It can even be P. caerulea.
The above followup was added by Rob Wagner on December 31, 2002 at 6:34 am PST.
P. mollissima is so vigorous, it is worth growing as an annual even if it freezes. Start with a large plant and feed it heavily, otherwise it will just be taking off in the fall.
I have seed of P. pinnatistipula - really hoping it grows. I also have P. herbertiana, an Australian species that is supposed to be sort of hardy. Maybe this year I will plant it out - but of course, I will save cuttings if I do.
The above followup was added by Ian on December 31, 2002 at 6:53 am PST.
And how fragrant is it?
The above followup was added by Dave, Federal Way on December 31, 2002 at 10:01 pm PST.
It came from a local nursery that was resold a year or two ago. They don't have anything very good now thanks to the new owner. I can send you a pic through email if you like.
wdlong2$attbi.com change $ to @
The above followup was added by roger Olympia on January 01, 2003 at 10:25 pm PST.
I bought it 5 years ago and the fragrants is not that great, On a hot sunny day you can smell the fragrant 3' away but most days you have to put your nose to the center to really enjoy the fragrants.
The above followup was added by Roger Olympia on January 01, 2003 at 10:40 pm PST.
[Rob, would the growth habit be suitable for this? ]
Oh mine trails all the time! Trails until it finds something to strangle or smother. Actually looks pretty good against the ground.
But a three foot bank is not not much room for this vigorous plant. It would keep you busy clipping and training.
The above followup was added by Rob Wagner on January 02, 2003 at 0:51 am PST.
Rob, How about training it to grow parallel to the retaining wall and having the side branches trail down from the top? How wide is it typically? I could post a photo of my site if that is possible.
The above followup was added by Dave, Federal Way on January 02, 2003 at 11:38 pm PST.
testpost
The above followup was added by Jennifer on January 30, 2005 at 6:56 am PST.