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Fruit Fact: Pettingill, a variety of apples
Pettingill is the champion of apple pies; out of the 800 apples growing in the Cloudforest, Pettingill by far has made the best apple pie I've ever tasted. Pettingill is also the only low chill apple we know of so far that competes with a good Northern grown old world heirloom apple. It has a nice sweet and tart complexity and stores well like an old world apple. But it is not an apple for the amateur as it requires some storage time off the tree to mellow, especially in Southern California, and it's easy to pick way too early, yet it's a very late apple. It's a star in Northern California and deserves to be grown in many northern climates.
Variety Background:
| Most Common Name: | Pettingill |
|---|---|
| Species: | malus domestica seedling |
| Synonyms: | |
| Origin: | Pettingill is a chance seedling discovered near Long Beach and was introduced in 1949. |
| Patents or Trademarks: |
Fruit:
Description: Large round fruit with red blush and stripes over green skin, somewhat irregularly shaped. Skin becomes slightly greasy in storage.
Flavor and tasting notes: The yellow-green flesh is sweet and tart, with good tannin production even in warm climates. It colors up about a month before it is fully ripe, and will continue to ripen in storage off the tree.
Adaptation:
Pettingill originated in Long Beach, hence it is supposed to be adapted to Southern California's low chill conditions. It is self fertile, but it's also a partial tip bearer, which means it takes time before it begins to fruit. We've received missed reviews on how this apple performs in Southern California, however, it is a prolific producer in Central and Northern California, even in the lower chill portions of the San Francisco Peninsula.
Bloom Time Rating:
Growth Habit:
Very vigorous in medium to high chill climates, drops to T2 in low chill settings. Willowy limbertwig style bearer, shoots go straight up, then start tip bearing and will form additional spurs as branches weep downwards from the tip bearing. So it's rather difficult to shape properly. Takes a long time to fruit because of the tip bearing behavior and spur production that occurs only on horizontal branches.
Vigor: T3
Harvest, storage and consumption:
Pettingill is a tricky apple to harvest because it blooms and ripens over a longer period of time. In low chill settings the harvest is spread out even further. To make matters worse, pettingill will color up long before the fruit is actually ripe, and harvesting the apple too early means it will be really tart.
Begin of Harvest: early Oct
End of Harvest: early Nov
Stores Until: mid Jan
Usage:
By far one of the best cookers we have come across. Cooking brings out an amazing apple aroma that makes the best apple pie hands down. It's also a good dessert apple for those who like slightly tarter apples. Makes a great apple juice.
Eating: Yes
Cooking: Yes
Cider: Yes
Diseases:
Slightly susceptible to scab.
Scab Susceptibility: Medium
Fire Blight Susceptibility:
Powdery Mildew Susceptibility:
Cedar Apple Rust Susceptibility:
Black Rot Susceptibility:
Phytopthera Rots Susceptibility:
Fly Speck Susceptibility:
Coddling Moth Susceptibility:
Nurseries that carry this variety:
Readily available in several California nurseries, propagated by Dave Wilson.
This apple is not in GRIN.
Hello ClarkeandGertrude (I am not sure of your actual name)
I finally caught your last posting here regarding the 'Pettingill' apple.
My name is John Valenzuela, and I am the person who came by your place looking for the orginal 'Pettingill' tree. I am sorry we missed you that day. Great to hear you still have a couple of the trees still producing! I grew up in Long Beach and would spend summers bodysurfing in Seal Beach and other Orange county beaches, as Long Beach has no waves being behind the breakwater.
I hope to be down in the area in May, and would love to meet you and see some of the documents from your grandfather that you mentioned. I will also send you an email so you may contact me directly.
Thanks for you response here.
JVWell, Judy--it looks like we may be 2nd cousins or something like that. Gertrude was .y grandma. I remember many times visiting at Aunt Clara. My sister lives in the original house and I live in Gertrude and Clark's daughter Ruth's house which sits on the site of the original apple trees. (the corner lot).. My father planted two new Pettingill's when their house was constructed. Yes, Pettingills do well in Seal Beach. We make pies and sauce every year. It is interesting to note that my grandfather Pettingill also had fig, guava, redwood, mulberry, plum and orange trees bearing fruit as I was growing up. The mulberries were my favorite. The redwood tree actually grew about about 15 ft. high. By the way Judy, Clara was a corker!!!! Always smiling!My grandma sure missed her when she passed. For Pettingill apple tree enthusiasts, I dug through my mom's paperwork and found a bit of correspondense between Armstrong Nursery and Clark Pettingill as he was preparting to sell the tree rights to them. Along with that, there were a few newspaper articles including photos of my grandpa holding the apples in front of his tree. Very fun find. my email is lauriesunship@hotmail.com
I remember going to the house in Seal Beach when Uncle Clark and Aunt Gertie lived there. I am so glad the house stayed in the family. My grandmother was Gertie's sister Clara. I remember when my dad told me about his Uncle Clark having grown the delicious Pettingill apple. Where are they marketed?
Do you have any notes on how the trees perform in Seal Beach? This is a great variety and I'd love to see more people grow it. Some people have had issues they claim comes from not enough chill, but if the tree can grow in Seal Beach, it should do well anywhere in Southern California. Are there any notes as to where the original tree grew and what sort of seed it came from?
I am sorry, but Clark Pettingill was my grandfather who passed many many years ago. I am his grandaughter and I live on the property where the first apple tree grew. It has since been removed but we have two more growing closer to the orginal house my grandparents built in 1925. There was another interested post of a person who actually came down here to get a glimpse of the trees and looke to see if someone was home. I wish I could connect with her since she made a special trip!!! My grandfather was a brilliant man with more than one patents. I didn't know him for very long but he had many interests. Should anyone who loves Pettingill's want to see the tree's birthplace, let me know.
Clark, I was on vacation, I had no idea you posted here. I was in Southern California over the holidays. Darn! I would loved to come by and see the tree. Indeed, the Pettingill apple makes the absolute best pies ever! We discovered this by accident. No other apple I've cooked with makes pies as good as Pettingill.
My grandfather, Clark Pettingill found an apple tree growing in his backyard . We live in Seal Beach. He has long passed. One of your writers said they even came by to see the place. I would love to talk with you. While I am a retired school teacher and can teach anyone to read, I am not an apple tree enthusiast. However, if you chose to make another trip down to Seal Beach, I could point you to where the first tree stood, and may be able to find some paperwork on patents, newspaper articles, etc. By the way, the small craftsmen house you saw was built in 1925 by my grandparents, but the Pettingill apple trees were later planted as my mom and dad built on my grandparents corner lot (backyard) and the original was removed
Somehow my sister found this site and you can imagine how excited we were to find this interest in our favorite apple. OOOOOHHHHH the pies!!!!!!!!
Hi, I planted a 15 gallon Pettingill along with Anna and Dorsett back in fall of 2007. I had those trees for three years. Pettingill leafs out so late, the first spring I had it I thought it had died during the winter! However, here in my climate right on the beach in San Diego, where some years I get 0-100 chill hours it always flowered and set a nice crop that I thinned heavily to allow the tree to focus on root formation. It is a great apple, and truly low chill.
The orchard is on the Summerland/Carpinteria border on the grounds of Pacifica Graduate Institute and about 9 miles east of downtown Santa Barbara. For the past 23 years I've been planting and maintaining edible and Mediterranean gardens on 12 acres, 7 designated agricultural. Five acres are dedicated to citrus and low-chill deciduous fruit and other evergreen fruit. Two acres are managed as an organic market garden producing food, herbs and flowers for the two campuses of the Institute as well as the community. Unfortunately there are some people who consider these bounties free for the taking, and most years we don't get to harvest one or more varieties at all. From 5 Anna apple trees we may have harvested 30 pounds, and those mostly peewies or scarred. Frustrating. So far, the Pettingill is still fully fruited, still a few weeks away from harvestable for those that insist on tart apples.
Where are you located? Sounds like you have a pretty good climate to work with. You must be in the South somewhere. We're on the second ridge from the ocean looking Westward but have sight to the ocean towards the south, and we get 800 hours of chill but it rarely freezes here. Pettingill is quite precocious over here, but even with the high chill, it is a bit lanky and tends towards being a tip bearer.
Hi, all, I am new to this board. Very interesting exchanges. I tend a grove of about 50 low-chill pome and stone fruit in zone 9b, the Pettingill apple being one of them. The site is less than a mile from the Pacifica ocean but in a small valley with two ridges intervening. The site never receives frost (in my experience here) and used to have about 200 hours chill (now closer to 100 hours). The Pettingill apple on apple rootstock was planted in 1994 and began fruiting in earnest about 2004. We did not prune the tree for the first 4 years. The Pettingill has outshined all the other varieties in yield and taste tests. Perhaps the only competitor for taste of those we are trialing is the Anders apple, ripening about the same time.
Just as I was ready to chop out my Pettingils, I now have 1/2 a dozen apples each. Will be interested to see how they turn out.
On another forum someone posted a pic of a Splash pluot with a hole in it, people on the forum thought it was snail damage. so I am glad I put down snail bait, as the snails were getting into my peaches, but they shave off the fuzz.
Plum curculio does not exist in the West, it's too dry. Sorry about the cherry advice, lapins is in fact self fertile, but van is not.
I just double checked and I am 9b , but I do know I have more chill hours then most of Simi valley. I am in a valley on the south part of town and I tend to be 3 degrees cooler then the rest of the town. When I bought the Lapin it stated it was self fertile. I will think about another cherry I might just go with a couple low chill varieties. I am fighting thrip damage to nectarines right now. Hopefully spinosad will help out. What would be getting into my plums, could it be Plum curculio?
Where are you located? Southern California? You have your zone labeled as zone 8b, that can't be right if you are having trouble with lack of chill.
If you are on a West facing slope on a hillside in the LA basin or coastal zones, then I would recommend you stick with tropicals and subtropicals and only grow a few super low chill temperate zone fruits. You will probably clock 50 hours of chill at best in such a location. Pettingill should do fine there.
Before you write off your lapins cherry, consider the fact that you might have a pollination issue. Lapins is the first cherry to bloom for me after the low chill cherries, and it will often bloom while the low chill cherries are still in bloom. But lapins is not self fertile. You need a pollinator. Van is a good self fertile cherry.Since I have 2 Pettingills I will play around with watering each of them and will monitor the moisture of each. If it does not work out the trees will be converted or replaced. I will be replacing my lapin later in the year, when it does not produce cherries again. Apples seem more fickle then peaches and plums. I am also struggling with Avocados. My hill is west facing and I think I did not paint the trunk well enough. I have also struggled with Elephant Heart and Emerald Drop Pluot.
Seal Beach is indeed low chill. Pettingill makes the best apple pie, and for a low chill apple, it really has a lot of complexity. I wonder if one of the apple trees you saw was indeed the original pettingill. It would be worthwhile to talk to those people to geg a bit of the history behind the apple. I think the patent is now expired so we should make more of an effort to get the tree propagated.
I just got back from visiting my mother, who lives in Long Beach, where I grew up.
Before I left to go down there, I read the beginning of this 'Pettingill' thread Axel started, and got inspired to do some more research on "Pettingill", as I have it grafted up from a scion Axel gave me (thanks again). Here is some of what I found (mostly from the US Plant Patent mentioned):
Pettingill was actually discovered as a chance seedling of unknown origin by Clark Pettingill in 1949, in Seal Beach a small beach town just south of Long Beach. There are some parts of Long Beach that are 5 miles or so away from the ocean, that would have somewhat higher chill, but the C. Pettingill residence address that I found online was just a quarter mile from the ocean, with no mountains or even hills for many miles- that is low chill!
I actually found the address on google maps street view, and looked into the backyard by way of the alley, and there seemed to be some un-identifiable fruit trees, which could be apples! So I had to go see for myself, in person. I visited the residence in Seal Beach with my mother. No one answered the door, but I did see 2 old apple trees in the backyard (just starting to leaf out, with a few flowers), but they did not look to be quite 60 years old. I wonder, is one of them the original 'Pettingill'?
'Pettingill' was originally released to the public in 1949 (patent pending) by way of US Plant Patent No. 1352 (filed March 28, 1950) Feb 22, 1955, [url:2yhdul8l]http://www.google.com/patents/USPP1352.pdf[/url:2yhdul8l] assigned by Mr. Pettingill to Armstrong Nursery of Ontario, Ca.
The patent application says it is harvested Early September to Mid October, with good storage ability. It was also claimed to be of very high and regular productivity, with the fruit borne more heavily on tips rather than spurs, thus coming into bearing early in its life. Too bad that guy from that article kept on pruning off the fruiting branch tips!
I have friends about 2 miles from the ocean in Santa Barbara, on a hill of about 200 ft elevation, who rave about their Pettingill apple tree, it is their favorite apple (especially for pies as you say)
You mentioned that Pettingill used to be the #1 planted apple in So. Cal., I wanted to read more about this, but the only references I could find were these two: [i:2yhdul8l]An Old Rose: The Apple[/i:2yhdul8l] by Ed Laivo [url:2yhdul8l]http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/gardencompass/gc07_mar_apr_02.html[/url:2yhdul8l] "Pettingill, discovered in Long Beach, CA in 1949, at one time was the #1 apple planted in Southern California." I have emailed Ed Laivo, asking him for the source of this fact.
This claim is repeated on a document from the University of California Cooperative Extension, Central Coast & South Region, Center for Landscape and Urban Horticulture, Low-Chill Apples, By Kathie Carter, Cooperative Extension/ Botany Plant Sciences Dept., University California Riverside [url]ucanr.org/sites/UrbanHort/files/80158.pdf[/url]
Anyway it was great to hear from that same article, that someone else in the SF Bay area said they love their 'Pettingill' tree.
Interesting thread on a (nearby) home town original!Hmmm, I better not get involved in your family affairs, wouldn't want an apple to cause domestic discord.
I think you did the right thing by axing your tree, because it sounds like you and pettingill just didn't get along. I axed my ubileen pear this Spring, it just didn't cooperate.
So what I am going to say about pettingill here isn't there to convince you to grow it. I read the article you mention a few days ago, hence I commented on it. This very article provides more evidence that Pettingill is a low chill apple.
The article says:
[quote:ne7wvwtr]
OK- now for the reality. The tree grew like crazy- long straight branches, no fruit spikes or buds. I pruned heavily. More growth, late dormancy, long dormancy, wouldn't bloom for 3 years. Finally, it bloomed and set 1, that's right just one, apple. It fell off in August- sour as can be. This year it bloomed well, for a long time and set about 12 fruits. One fell off in early August. The others grew large and turned very red. So, at the end of August - first week of September really, I pick 4 to make a "test Pie". [/quote:ne7wvwtr]
OK, when an apple isn't adapted to the chill it receives, it doesn't grow at all, or grows very little. here it's obvious the apple is not affected by lack of chill because of the long straight branches mentioned in the article. This means the apple is growing just fine. But pettingill is a partial tip bearer. It grows long shoots without spurs that eventually fruit at the ends. Then, once the branch bends, the parts bent horizontally bloom and also form spurs that bloom again the following year. So by pruning it, this person just encouraged it to grow more shoots and this just delays fruiting.
Now the article also complains that the large apples were sour, and lacked juice. Well, the lack of juice is due to lack of proper irrigation, and the sour apples is due to picking the apple too soon. Pettingill colors up long before the apples are ready. Even when fully ripe, the apples are still too sour and need to mellow in cold storage. That's what old fashioned apples are like.
As another commenters says:
[quote:ne7wvwtr]
Larry said... Pettingill is slow to fruit, but it is the most delicious low chill apple I know. Once it kicks in it is highly dependably and as a good sugar-acid balance. It definitely ripens late and if picked early is very tart. However, if left on the tree a bit past when it looks ripe, it definitely sweetens up.
It stores well and also sweetens over the first week or two it is picked.
My personal opinion is that we have become accustomed to the overly sweet flavor of red delicious, fuji and similar apples and have forgotten the intense sweet tart taste of the best apples. [/quote:ne7wvwtr]
OK, so there you have it. I think Larry is right. Bottom line is that most apples are not adapted to drought conditions. Pettingill is definitely not adapted to drought. But some apples are. There is a fellow who collected apple varieties in Arizona in abandoned orchards that somehow survived. I don't know what happened to that project. I'll do some research and write it up on the Cloudforest once I find the drought tolerant varieties. These are the ones to grow in Ed's garden, and Ed won't have to ask his wife to get a second job.A....that theory makes total sense to me. Perhaps my wife should get a second job to pay for my fruit tree water bill. What do you think???
interesting....
http://fluffysgarden.blogspot.com/2008/ ... -news.html
Ed, it's a crazy hobby indeed. I grow lots of things, and it's taken me a lot of time to figure out how to grow things that don't normally grow in my climate. For example, I grow tropical guavas, they bloom in August and ripen the following April. That is completely different than in Southern California. And they are not as good as down south, that's a compromise I have to live with. But some varieties are way better than others. The same applies to apples in Southern California, they won't behave the same.
Based on your comments, I am convinced that the water stress is what caused your issues. Apples need moist soil. The moment the soil goes dry the apple trees go dormant.
Here's what I think is happening with your apples trees. You are right inland from Ventura, but there are no mountains or hills in between Somis and the coast. So I would venture to say that you are in a distinct low chill climate, probably more like 150-200 hours maybe. So you will expect delayed bud break on your apple trees.
Now the delay is a function of heat. Apples make up for lack of chill by breaking dormancy as a function of heat. The less chill units the more heat units an apple tree will need to break dormancy. The ratio is a function of variety, hence some varieties are better adapted to low chill conditions. For example in Phoenix, an apple tree will blossom much sooner with 300 hours of chill than one along the California coast where it isn't as hot. But a Fuji may respond differently than a Pettingill, and may require less overall heat units.
So I suspect that for you, your Pettingill would break bud right about when the Summer heat kicks in, which should be the late May, early June time frame. But by then, your soil will be very dry. And without adequate water, the trees will remain in dormancy. In fact, you could probably induce a July bloom on your trees if you water them like crazy after a couple of months of drought.
Pettingill has successfully been grown in Long Beach, which is where it came from. it may experience a long dormant season after delayed defoliation in the late Winter. But apples eventually do bloom, and over a longer period of time in a low chill environment.
Kevin at Kuffel Creek can tell you stories of apple trees growing in the tropics. They are growing Rome Beauty in Equatorial Africa below 500 meter elevations, so I am sure you could grow Fuji or Pettingill if you provide adequate watering during the hot months.A...you brought up a good point about water stress. Perhaps I do under-water my trees. My heavy clay soil has always made me dance between sloppy/soaked soil vs. hard/dry. It is crummy....but it is what I have. Like you....I try to do many things with fruit trees. Perhaps it would be smarter to stick to one thing. My main passion is avos. However, we just have a crazy passion. Hard to explain the craziness....
Axel,
I'm growing Fujis in Phoenix. Temps right now are in the upper 80s and we barely had 350-400 hours of chill this winter (temps were routinely in the 70s which throws the entire Utah model of subtracting chill out the window).
Two of my three trees (4+ years) are loaded with blossoms. As you alluded, I think cultural practices need to also be considered in addition to climate before calling a tree a failure.Ed, I just looked at the map to see where Somis is, I didn't realize you were this close to the ocean. I am still curious as to the conditions you've encountered there. I have a hard time believing you can't grow an apple that was a seedling discovered near Long Beach. If it grows in Long Beach, it should grow pretty much anywhere in Southern California.
Ed, are you on a hill or in a valley? Kuffel Creek in Riverside seems to not have any issues with growing a rather large number of apples including Fuji and he has a climate similar to yours, if not hotter. I visited his orchard last weekend and his Fuji was fully leafed out. I wonder what is different about your conditions? Could you be water stressing your trees? Because most apples need a lot of water and in Southern California, many of them will leaf out much later, but if they get drought stressed, then they won't leaf out at all, because the lack of water will induce more dormancy.
R...come to think of it...I grew a Fuji for several years as well. It was a dud. One year I did have a few acceptable fruits. Your chill is similar to mine. Stick with your Anna. I have battled coddling moths and fungus conditions. A good dormant spray is important.
Ed I live in Simi Valley inland from Somis I have 2 Pettingills that are 5 years old, they leaf out ok, but have not produced fruit, only one of the two consistently produces flowers. I have started to graft other apples on to it. Anna does well for me, but only produced 2 apples this year. My Fuji, Gala, Pink Lady are still young waiting to see how they will do.
A...I had my Pettingill tree probably 5-6 years. It always leafed out erratically....even thoughout the summer. Never once did all the leaf buds open. Most branches had long portions unprotected from the sun. Probably 2 of the last 3 years it produced a few tiny fruits that never got larger than a grape. It was very disappointing. The only other apples I tried (Ein Sheimer and Dorsett) were duds. They produced, but the flesh was mealy. By far the Anna has been best for me. You have much better chill for apples, of course.
Ed, I was thinking of you when I did the write up on pettingill. I didn't know how many years you had yours. What I've heard is that it takes several years to fruit in lower chill climates. But when it finally fruits it's reliable.
I only have the experience of growing it here in Santa Cruz, and we average 800 hours by end of February, more like 1200 by the end of April. So for me this apple is incredibly reliable, and it fruited the first year.
So Ed, please, tell me what your experience was. How many years was it in the ground, and did it ever fruit for you? I'll update my writeup.A...I am thinking we did this drill regarding Pettingill. I know your knowledge on apple growing is far superior to mine. However, my experience of this cultivar NOT being a true low-chiller.... has been supported by many other people who are smarter than me. I gave mine a serious chance to produce. It's erratic leaf-out and lack of production over many years produced my axe. I average around 350 chill hours according to the experts. It must be an excellent eater....huh? I have stuck to only Anna and Winter Banana when it comes to apples....